GTN Database Update

[flyboy0681]

 At least wx changes daily but when have you seen an airport change location after 28 days.

 

 

It appears things change more often than we thought. While preparing for a trip to Sebring today I noticed on the NOTAM that the runway numbers changed a few weeks ago. Runway 36/18 is now  1/19.

[Bennett]

It seems to me that Garmin data will load to a generic SD car for the 650, 750, or 796, while Nav Data from Jeppesen requires a SD card mysteriously formatted by them for the 650 and 750.  I have not been able to have the Garmin data and Jeppesen Nav Data on a single card.  It might just be me, or my setup,  (tried on Windows XT and 7 computers), but this is a frustration.  

 

Re: Bennett, there's redundancy and then there's redundancy. 747's typically have only two Inertial Reference Systems.  I absolutely agree my panel set-up is way over the top from what is necessary.  I started flying back in 1956, and while there was a break for a while, I have been flying fairly steadily for the last 25-30 years or so.  I've flown with pilotage, ded reckoning (including long distances over water), Omega, Loran A, C. and F, VORs, ADFs, and GPS navigational systems. I've flown across the US many times, across Canada, Alaska, much of the Caribbean, Hispaniola, the British West Indies, Mexico (mainland and Baja), and occasionally in Africa and Europe. I've done extensive marine navigation in the Indian Ocean, the coasts of Canada, the United States, and Mexico, and a number of inland waterways. I spent several years working on the Columbus landfall project, as well as the navigational systems and track of Drake and Vancouver. I really don't need all this Garmin stuff to keep from getting lost, but I really like the new avionics. With my current panel I can enjoy the flying aspects, and concentrate on the other aircraft systems. The JPI 830 is a wonderful tool for managing the engine, and with these systems in place, I think I am a better, and safer, pilot than without them. I have all sorts of other redundancies that using the same methods and similar equipment that I have had in other aircraft, have been of great import to me. Twice I have lost a vacuum pump in IMC, and both times, I flipped the switch to the electric back-up to: ON, and the AI came back to life. These became non-events, and I landed at the closest airports that could replace the engine driven vacuum pump. My current Mooney has not only this type of electric back-up pump, but a "Life Saver" electric AI with its own battery, and to gild the lily, I have a Dynon D1 EFIS. This is probably my last airplane, and I've spent the last year or two working with paint shops, upholstery shops, and avionics shops to build my personal vision of an ideal airplane for me. I'm sure others have different ideas.  I am not going to worry about resale -at this point in life I am more attuned to just pleasing myself, and I really enjoy learning all this new gear.  I'm 78 now, and I only plan to fly for two more years, no matter how well I could pass a physical, so what is paramount to me is maximizing my flying enjoyment. After 80?  I'll probably sell the Mooney and my sailboat, and switch to a trawler, and if I retire, perhaps again wander along the coasts of California and Mexico. As they say: There is a time and season for all things. 

[Marauder]

It seems to me that Garmin data will load to a generic SD car for the 650, 750, or 796, while Nav Data from Jeppesen requires a SD card mysteriously formatted by them for the 650 and 750. I have not been able to have the Garmin data and Jeppesen Nav Data on a single card. It might just be me, or my setup, (tried on Windows XT and 7 computers), but this is a frustration. Re: Bennett, there's redundancy and then there's redundancy. 747's typically have only two Inertial Reference Systems. I absolutely agree my panel set-up is way over the top from what is necessary. I started flying back in 1956, and while there was a break for a while, I have been flying fairly steadily for the last 25-30 years or so. I've flown with pilotage, ded reckoning (including long distances over water), Omega, Loran A, C. and F, VORs, ADFs, and GPS navigational systems. I've flown across the US many times, across Canada, Alaska, much of the Caribbean, Hispaniola, the British West Indies, Mexico (mainland and Baja), and occasionally in Africa and Europe. I've done extensive marine navigation in the Indian Ocean, the coasts of Canada, the United States, and Mexico, and a number of inland waterways. I spent several years working on the Columbus landfall project, as well as the navigational systems and track of Drake and Vancouver. I really don't need all this Garmin stuff to keep from getting lost, but I really like the new avionics. With my current panel I can enjoy the flying aspects, and concentrate on the other aircraft systems. The JPI 830 is a wonderful tool for managing the engine, and with these systems in place, I think I am a better, and safer, pilot than without them. I have all sorts of other redundancies that using the same methods and similar equipment that I have had in other aircraft, have been of great import to me. Twice I have lost a vacuum pump in IMC, and both times, I flipped the switch to the electric back-up to: ON, and the AI came back to life. These became non-events, and I landed at the closest airports that could replace the engine driven vacuum pump. My current Mooney has not only this type of electric back-up pump, but a "Life Saver" electric AI with its own battery, and to gild the lily, I have a Dynon D1 EFIS. This is probably my last airplane, and I've spent the last year or two working with paint shops, upholstery shops, and avionics shops to build my personal vision of an ideal airplane for me. I'm sure others have different ideas. I am not going to worry about resale -at this point in life I am more attuned to just pleasing myself, and I really enjoy learning all this new gear. I'm 78 now, and I only plan to fly for two more years, no matter how well I could pass a physical, so what is paramount to me is maximizing my flying enjoyment. After 80? I'll probably sell the Mooney and my sailboat, and switch to a trawler, and if I retire, perhaps again wander along the coasts of California and Mexico. As they say: There is a time and season for all things.

Way to sum it all up! We only live once...

[Piloto]

It appears things change more often than we thought. While preparing for a trip to Sebring today I noticed on the NOTAM that the runway numbers changed a few weeks ago. Runway 36/18 is now  1/19.

 

Now that could be conflicting because on the current approach plate it still runway 36/18.

 

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1302/00386RY36.PDF

 

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1302/00386RR18.PDF

 

José

[larryb]

Bah Humbug! Well, I loaded the disks from my Mac booting fresh into Windows and on another PC that is on Windows 7. Took the drive to the airport and came up with the same result. Any other suggestions (other than someone volunteering to take this GTN 650 off my hands)?

Here's what I do:

 

1) Format a generic 8 GB Sandisk card for FAT32 with the drive name of "GARMIN."   Perhaps there is a formatting issue with your cards, but I think I'd start with a fresh generic one first.

2) Following Bennett's suggestion, load only the Garmin data, no Jepp data. And using the windows 7 computer.

3) If that doesn't work, take it to the dealer, explain your issue, and have them try an update using their systems.

 

I did have a bad GTN 650 myself. It kept switching between VLOC and GPS on it's own. Eventually I got a message that the "external CDI key stuck." Thing is, I don't have an external CDI switch installed. Dealer checked wiring, confirmed there was not even a pin in the connector in that position. Garmin replaced the unit with a new one, and the problem has not come back. So it is possible that there is a glitch in your unit.

 

Larry

[Marauder]

Thanks Larry! I will give it a try.

[Oscar Avalle]

Well, I'm not sure I'm more bummed out or pissed off. Went to the airport and tried the download of the databases with a fresh download on the SD. No joy. Same problem.... Oscar -- you hear anything from the Beech boys?

I am also getting pissed... Now at powering the unit up I get an error message, saying that the GPS is not connected and that a dealer should check the coaxial cable... once the unit is up and running the message disappears... go figure..any suggestions....

 

You would imagine that Garmin should have better quality control...

 

But to respond to your specific question, the be(a)ch boys just said that I should call Garmin...

 

Not much help.

 

Oscar

[Oscar Avalle]

Here's what I do:

 

1) Format a generic 8 GB Sandisk card for FAT32 with the drive name of "GARMIN."   Perhaps there is a formatting issue with your cards, but I think I'd start with a fresh generic one first.

2) Following Bennett's suggestion, load only the Garmin data, no Jepp data. And using the windows 7 computer.

3) If that doesn't work, take it to the dealer, explain your issue, and have them try an update using their systems.

 

I did have a bad GTN 650 myself. It kept switching between VLOC and GPS on it's own. Eventually I got a message that the "external CDI key stuck." Thing is, I don't have an external CDI switch installed. Dealer checked wiring, confirmed there was not even a pin in the connector in that position. Garmin replaced the unit with a new one, and the problem has not come back. So it is possible that there is a glitch in your unit.

 

Larry

Thank Larry, will try too.

[flyboy0681]

I am also getting pissed... Now at powering the unit up I get an error message, saying that the GPS is not connected and that a dealer should check the coaxial cable... once the unit is up and running the message disappears... go figure..any suggestions....

 

I once had something similar to this and took care of it by going into setup mode and letting it save the current settings again.

 

To do this press the HOME key while powering up. Once at the setup menu press a non-essential function such as Lighting. Make a simple change and then go back to the menu. Power down and then startup normally. No promises.

[Piloto]

In my early days as an engineer I was involved in the design of the first capacitance touch key pads for industrial/military applications. During environmental testing I learned that these key pads and touch screens can introduce self key entries under some conditions. High humidity, condensantion after being frozen and dirty or contaminated glass surface are some of the causes of self key entry. Some designs are also sensitive to EMI. Good design and testing practice should preclude the above. But if you experience unexpected behaviour try cleaning the glass first on your 650/750. It may save you some headache. BTW this is why you don't see capacitance touch switches for missile/torpedo firing.

 

José

[Marauder]

I am also getting pissed... Now at powering the unit up I get an error message, saying that the GPS is not connected and that a dealer should check the coaxial cable... once the unit is up and running the message disappears... go figure..any suggestions....

 

You would imagine that Garmin should have better quality control...

 

But to respond to your specific question, the be(a)ch boys just said that I should call Garmin...

 

Not much help.

 

Oscar

Well Oscar, we will both need a beer after this adventure! I am running out to the store to get an 8GB card to try Larry's suggestion.

 

As for error message; I think it is related to the cable running from the unit to the GPS antennae. If you can get behind the panel, I would make sure the coax cables are all on and snug. Not sure where they mounted your GPS antennae, but if you can get to it, I would check this as well. The only other things that it could be is if the cable is bad, the cable wore through because it was installed in a way to rub, the GPS is having a problem or the GPS antennae is bad but causing it to appear as a cable issue.

 

Good luck my friend!

[Oscar Avalle]

I am also getting pissed... Now at powering the unit up I get an error message, saying that the GPS is not connected and that a dealer should check the coaxial cable... once the unit is up and running the message disappears... go figure..any suggestions....

You would imagine that Garmin should have better quality control...

But to respond to your specific question, the be(a)ch boys just said that I should call Garmin...

Not much help.

Oscar

Well Oscar, we will both need a beer after this adventure! I am running out to the store to get an 8GB card to try Larry's suggestion.

As for error message; I think it is related to the cable running from the unit to the GPS antennae. If you can get behind the panel, I would make sure the coax cables are all on and snug. Not sure where they mounted your GPS antennae, but if you can get to it, I would check this as well. The only other things that it could be is if the cable is bad, the cable wore through because it was installed in a way to rub, the GPS is having a problem or the GPS antennae is bad but causing it to appear as a cable issue.

Good luck my friend!

Thanks good suggestions. I will have the avionics guy look into it.

Oscar

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Marauder]

Well, the problem is solved. As a rehash, I was not able to get a free update of my obstacle, terrain, safe taxi and base maps on my GTN 650. After a number of attempts using flygarmin.com and reaching out to the Garmin technical staff, the root of the problem was discovered.

 

When I setup my GTN 650 on the Garmin site, I entered the 13 digit System ID number incorrectly. Garmin went in, corrected it and refreshed the updates. I was able to load it successfully.

 

Oscar -- not sure this helps your issue.

[Oscar Avalle]

Well, the problem is solved. As a rehash, I was not able to get a free update of my obstacle, terrain, safe taxi and base maps on my GTN 650. After a number of attempts using flygarmin.com and reaching out to the Garmin technical staff, the root of the problem was discovered.

 

When I setup my GTN 650 on the Garmin site, I entered the 13 digit System ID number incorrectly. Garmin went in, corrected it and refreshed the updates. I was able to load it successfully.

 

Oscar -- not sure this helps your issue.

Once I am back on Monday I will let you everybody know. Thank you.

[Jsavage3]

With a 750 recently installed, I've decided to get the Garmin nav data subscription for $570/year and a subscription to Garmin Pilot for $75/year. This will keep me legal for IFR and won't require me to check all the lat/longs for each waypoint. I figure the $$$ saved will be used to buy more av-gas...

With an expired terrain/obstacle/etc database, I figure that I'll be either flying the black line in IMC or looking out the window in VMC.

I did take advantage of the initial "one-time" free update which brought everything up to date and I will likely update the terrain/obstacle/etc once a year or so.

I did receive two SD cards with my 750, but my avionics guy told me that a generic, 8-gig SD card from Best Buy or Walmart would work just fine if I ever lost one of my Garmin provided cards.

[Marauder]

With a 750 recently installed, I've decided to get the Garmin nav data subscription for $570/year and a subscription to Garmin Pilot for $75/year. This will keep me legal for IFR and won't require me to check all the lat/longs for each waypoint. I figure the $$$ saved will be used to buy more av-gas...

I did take advantage of the initial "one-time" free update which brought everything up to date and I will likely update the terrain/obstacle/etc once a year or so.

I did receive two SD cards with my 750, but my avionics guy told me that a generic, 8-gig SD card from Best Buy or Walmart would work just fine if I ever lost one of my Garmin provided cards.

 

Timely post. My Jepp subscription comes up for renewal in March and the renewal cost is $795 for the entire package. Looks like I need to shop around a bit.

[flyboy0681]

I did receive two SD cards with my 750, but my avionics guy told me that a generic, 8-gig SD card from Best Buy or Walmart would work just fine if I ever lost one of my Garmin provided cards.

 

Not entirely true. Through experience and a lot of digging, I found out that new store bought cards need to be a "clone" of the original cards. The original ones are specially encoded with information that will be checked when you load the data. If the unit doesn't find that information then some features will not work on the display properly, notably, the base map. What will happen is the data will load but the map will turn the inverse color as if it were in night mode and there is no way to correct it through any setting.

 

To use an ordinary card you'll need to download a program which will create a sector-by-sector copy of the original card so that the encoded information is placed on the new card. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions on which program to use to create the clone.

[Bennett]

In another thread I described the problems I had when I stupidly downloaded a GTN750 data update to my Aera 796 SD card, and visa-versa. Neither unit would work properly after that, with some really weird screens. After some very helpful phone calls to both Jeppesen and Garmin techies, I finally was able to reformat both cards, and re-install the updates,and base data. The 796 card is nothing special, but dumping the GTN750 updates onto it corrupted the card. I learned that the Garmin GTN750 card is TSO'd, and that the GTN750 (and GTN650) require that TSO'd card be in the Garmin boxes in order to be legal. A ramp check (how unlikely is that - to check the SD cards in the GTN series units) could, according to Garmin, ground the aircraft. I do notice that my N number is programed into the Gamin GTN card, so I suggest that it is probably not a great idea to use a generic SD card in the GTN series unless you can duplicate the proprietary Garmin information onto that card.

[Marauder]

Interesting stuff Bennett. My Aspen uses the same card for both the Nav database from Jepp and the charts from Seattle Avionics. It only came with one card. Interesting enough, the Jepp would only work on a proprietary card from them but the Seattle Avionics would work on a generic card.