1967 Mooney M20F Exec 21 FOR SALE

[wilcoaircraft]

Very clean 1967 Mooney M20F. 1246 SMOH. 4650 TT. Many performance mods and

recent annual. Complete maintenance logs. Full IFR. New leather interior.

This F model Mooney is equipped with a 200hp Continental IO-360-A1A, 3 bladed

Hartzell propeller and several “speed” modifications, including sloped windscreen,

overlapping nose gear doors, aileron gap seals, and lower cowl closure for improved

airflow and engine cooling.

New beige, leather interior with extended cabin; ample legroom in second row and

spacious baggage area. Fail safe, manual landing gear system and hand pumped

hydraulic flap extension.

Other modifications include reliable, float operated fuel level sight gauges installed

on both wing tanks, Hamilton vertical compass card, new tires and new main ship

battery.

Full IFR equipped avionics with KMD 150 moving map, KLN 94 with built-in

approaches, GPS/Nav/Hdg. selectable Century II autopilot, KT78 with mode C

encoder, and KX 155 Nav/Comm with localizer and glideslope.

[moodychief]

What repairs had to be made after the crash in 1976?

[Sabremech]

Is that really that relevant of a question after 36 years? 

[moodychief]

Considering it crashed while buzzing a house at low altitude, yes, I think that is a fair question...even after 36 years.

[moodychief]

I wouldn't question it if it was a typical gear up landing.  

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Quote: moodychief

Considering it crashed while buzzing a house at low altitude, yes, I think that is a fair question...even after 36 years.

[wilcoaircraft]

Before rumors start spreading like 17 year old girls on Facebook let me please clarify. The plane sustained damage to the co-pilot side landing gear when it collapsed upon a rough landing in 1976. The wingtip was also damaged and subsequently repaired professionally along with the landing gear shortly after the incident. The plane has been flying soundly since then with no additional issues. 

[moodychief]

Thank you.  That was the type of info I was looking for.  Sometimes the accident reports are vague in what happened and don't provide any clues to the type of damage.  

What is the asking price?

[Sabremech]

The whole point of my post is that "damage history" is an overused phrase. Is an airplane that is repaired with all factory new parts different than when it rolled out of the factory? The answer is "no". So the relevance of this incident from 36 years ago is nil. It's time to dispell these myths including the "crash while buzzing a house at low altitude".

[wilcoaircraft]

The damage and subsequent repairs are outlined, in detail, in the logs...

Asking price is 55,000 but will consider reasonable trades.. Aircraft, real estate etc. Make an offer!

[funvee]

Quote: Sabremech

The whole point of my post is that "damage history" is an overused phrase. Is an airplane that is repaired with all factory new parts different than when it rolled out of the factory? The answer is "no". So the relevance of this incident from 36 years ago is nil. It's time to dispell these myths including the "crash while buzzing a house at low altitude".

[gregwatts]

Quote: Sabremech

Is that really that relevant of a question after 36 years?

[fantom]

To people looking to buy, DH is almost always considered relevant; to those who own a plane with DH, it's almost always thought of as irrelevant, IMHO.

[jetdriven]

Quote: funvee

IMHO, I completely disagree.  I won't buy a car that has been in an accident for the very reason that resale down the road is impacted by that history.  

In a plane with an FAA record history, anyone that looks at the plane to purchase (as I am right now) will be wondering what happened.  If that history takes even a few buyers out of the market for a given plane, that impacts supply / demand and could drop the price.

So, even if I would be completely ok with the damage and the proper repairs, i would avoid a plane because the resale is more difficult.  I sure wouldn't pay the same for a plane with dh as I would for one w/o dh (even if all the parts were replace with factory new).

If the DH doesn't matter for old incidents, maybe the FAA should purge old data after a suitable timeframe.  As long as they keep those, the "explain the DH" question is always going to be valid (again, in my opinion only).

 

 

[funvee]

I'm the one who is in the market and trying to find a plane Bryon.  If I am the one laying down the money, then any question that changes the value or my desire for a Plane is valid in my opinion.

Sorry you disagree but I will continue to ask about damage history even if it offends you or any A&P.  

By the way, nice attitude.

 

[jetdriven]

Nice attitude? You are the one who doesnt know what you don't know, explaining on your third post to an A&P aircraft owner that a damage history airplane isnt worth anything. 

Let me guess, you are looking for a pefect log "NDH" airplane that has less than 2000 hours on it and a fresh engine. NVM the engine was done 20 years ago, look how shiny that paint is!  Then after two or three 10,000$ shop bills, you put a new engine in it, and a whole set of radios, then list of for sale for 150K and again, explain to the IA's and ATP's how your 1967 M20F is worth 150K.  After all, adding up all your reciepts you are in it for that....

Good luck in your search.  Let us know how it turns out.

[fantom]

Quote: JimR

As for resale, I'll probably never sell my Mooney so it will most likely never be something that I have to worry about.  If I do, though, I'll just pass along the 20% discount and I suspect that I'll have no trouble finding a buyer.

Jim 

[Bennett]

Quote: jetdriven

Nice attitude? You are the one who doesnt know what you don't know, explaining on your third post to an A&P aircraft owner that a damage history airplane isnt worth anything. 

Let me guess, you are looking for a pefect log "NDH" airplane that has less than 2000 hours on it and a fresh engine. NVM the engine was done 20 years ago, look how shiny that paint is!  Then after two or three 10,000$ shop bills, you put a new engine in it, and a whole set of radios, then list of for sale for 150K and again, explain to the IA's and ATP's how your 1967 M20F is worth 150K.  After all, adding up all your reciepts you are in it for that....

Good luck in your search.  Let us know how it turns out.

[Bennett]

That last reply was from me (Funvee - Shawn)... don't know why it is showing up as being from Bennett ?

[funvee]

Quote: Bennett

That last reply was from me (Funvee - Shawn)... don't know why it is showing up as being from Bennett ?

[carusoam]

Shawn, welcome to the "old" MooneySpace.  The "new" MooneySpace won't have login errors.  expect that the same people will still be around in the new one though.

Remember to make a donation to the site for improvements, if you haven't done so already...

Donations come in two forms, financial and knowledge.  Both are appreciated!

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

funvee's constraints due to Canadian import regs (problems!) make his search for the NDH and squared-away Mooney make sense.  Their restrictions on TBOs and mods are quite severe compared to ours in the US.

Jim gave an excellent thought on damage history and the impact on the market, especially that damage history involves a wide spectrum that could end up with no impact on value, or a total loss, and everything in between.  His plane certainly has no lingering effects after the damage was removed, and it is still giving great utility today.  Compared to a previously flooded plane with a shiny paint job....uh, I'd no doubt prefer his plane.  Many gear-up repairs end up making the Mooney better than it was before if done correctly.  Hangar rash repairs should be non-deductions as well.  With the Mooney fleet getting older every minute and the available pool of planes for sale, a buyer will sooner or later have to choose one with the fewest warts!

[wilcoaircraft]

Heres a link to the YouTube video on the aircraft.

Enjoy.

[funvee]

Looks great!  

[m20flyer]

Just one pilot's opinion:

DH is absolutely a legtimate concern. Sure, something may have been "repaired," but by who? A yahoo A&P with a quick and dirty attitude, an owner/operator flight school, a competent professional...?

I know that I'm not alone in saying that DH addressed by a MSC (or pt145 shop with a decent reputation) will be more tolerable than a field repair by "Joe-Jack's Aeroplain Services and Tire Center." DH shouldn't necessarily turn you off, but it shouldn't be considered irrelevant either. I know of an M20F that has been geared-up no fewer than six times (a pt61 trainer/rental). Would you pay the seller $50K for it when you could get one with NDH for a similar sum? Nobody in their right mind would.

I think jetdriven is generally correct, however. Most repairs I've seen are done reasonably well. I did do a prebuy on an F that had some pretty shoddy leading edge repairs that even the fresh coat of paint couldn't cover though. Buyer beware!