Mooney spins and stalls

[N201MKTurbo]

11 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Alternatively, you could just move the elevator into appropriate position and trim the pressure out of the yoke.

I’ve done lots of soft field takeoffs in various aircraft over the years. With full aft elevator, never once did the aircraft lift off into a departure stall. 

I just didn’t want to push that hard.

[midlifeflyer]

11 hours ago, bonal said:

controls checking for full deflection elevators aileron brakes and rudder (which is confirmed during taxi) Instruments, including a full scan and setting of all   Gas set for correct tank.  Attitude this is where I confirm trim and desired flap setting.. Run up 1700rpm  includes magnetos prop cycle and carb heat.  Safety seatbelts door check.  I guess this would fall under the flow category I’m sure I will receive criticism for this but it works well for me.

No criticism (well, I do hate mnemonics :D).  Just a thought.

Years ago I divided the before takeoff checks into two separate ones. One was the runup sequence that might be done anywhere. Might be at the hold line. Might be in a dedicated runup area. Might be back in the ramp. On a full-stop taxi back, might not be done at all. 

The other was at the hold line just prior to entering the runway. That’s where final freedom of control movement (correct has been checked multiple times, starting with the walk-around), trim check, flaps, and other “need to check thus before every takeoff” went.

[LarryAZ]

I've got a '69C with a bunch of aerodynamic mods on it.  I don't spin it.  With forward CG, doing falling leaf stalls it will quickly break to the left and try to enter a spin. Unloading the wing and standing on the rudder takes about 1/4 turn to stop it.  The rudder is small-- I wouldn't want to spin it. I took my initial training in this plane with a retired Mooney factory pilot and he he was adamant about not spinning it. I suspect that with a center to aft CG it would be way to exciting. 

[Echo]

12 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Oh come on.
Full aft trim…raising flaps on the go around…

Let’s see, what are some of the other deadly scenarios that are supposed to be killers that really aren’t?

People died in Ovations with max trim on takeoffs…so there is that. There is a bit of difference between a Missile and an F on takeoff. (Yes I know how great your useful load is blah blah blah. 

[Echo]

15 hours ago, Justin Schmidt said:

What would be the reason to do that

I have no friggin idea. THAT is where Missile co-owner left trim after flight. 

[Echo]

You people are insufferable. Time for a long nonsense break

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, Echo said:

People died in Ovations with max trim on takeoffs…so there is that. There is a bit of difference between a Missile and an F on takeoff. (Yes I know how great your useful load is blah blah blah. 

I'm not sure what useful load has to do with one's ability to overcome the elevator bungies in order to hold the plane at a flyable attitude. I would think the Missile would be heavier in the nose requiring more nose up trim, making it less dramatic than the superleggera, E model which would probably pull straight up into a violent, hammerhead stall, cartwheeling across the field and killing everything within a half mile.  

There are certification requirements with regard to the effort required to overcome mechanical control forces. Given that there is almost no aerodynamic load at rotation speed, the only significant force to overcome would be the mechanical resistance in the system and the bungies (for those so equipped).

I should think that even someone who is...what was the term I saw you use in another thread to describe those who prefer to use a tool for the fuel selector?  Was it "Gutenabled"?  Yes, that's the term...I should think that someone that you, yourself might refer to as "Gutenabled" would have the strength to manage a full aft trim situation on take-off.  Given the gutenabled can probably do it, a person of your fitness level should have no trouble at all.  If you're concerned, perhaps you should take some of you own advice when it comes to the gym. 

Blah blah blah indeed.  This place is getting almost as windy as the FB group.  

 

[bonal]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

No criticism (well, I do hate mnemonics :D).  Just a thought.

Years ago I divided the before takeoff checks into two separate ones. One was the runup sequence that might be done anywhere. Might be at the hold line. Might be in a dedicated runup area. Might be back in the ramp. On a full-stop taxi back, might not be done at all. 

The other was at the hold line just prior to entering the runway. That’s where final freedom of control movement (correct has been checked multiple times, starting with the walk-around), trim check, flaps, and other “need to check thus before every takeoff” went.

To me run up and pre flight are two separate things. At the hangar I do an in depth walk around checking everything down to the fasteners oil, belts control surfaces prop blades tail play on and on.  I wish the Mooney had an easy open cowling like the pipers and others if they did I would open and do a thorough inspection as it is flashlight looking into the hatches and into the front opening.  Just wanted to be clear about my procedure 

[bonal]

Early on in my Mooney flying when I had to do my first unplanned go around.  It was a bounced landing and on the second bounce I fire walled the throttle the trim was way up and the nose shot straight up and it caught me by surprise yes I had the strength to push the yoke forward but it took some effort but mostly it was the suddenness and if I had reacted any slower I’m certain it would have stalled and slammed down onto the runway.  This is now locked into memory but at the time with so little experience I consider it lucky I pushed as hard as I did 

[N201MKTurbo]

25 minutes ago, bonal said:

Early on in my Mooney flying when I had to do my first unplanned go around.  It was a bounced landing and on the second bounce I fire walled the throttle the trim was way up and the nose shot straight up and it caught me by surprise yes I had the strength to push the yoke forward but it took some effort but mostly it was the suddenness and if I had reacted any slower I’m certain it would have stalled and slammed down onto the runway.  This is now locked into memory but at the time with so little experience I consider it lucky I pushed as hard as I did 

If you would have done touch and go’s in your initial Mooney training, you would have been prepared for this. 
 

I’m just trying to cause trouble here.

[Jackk]

15 hours ago, Justin Schmidt said:

Have you done a 3rd class, I'm not even sure you need a pulse

 
 Done 1st and 2nds which are basically the same thing for 90% of it 

 Frankly it doesn’t take any remotely impressive physical attributes to strap yourself to a seat and move a yoke, pedals, and push and pull some knobs. 
 

 Heck 14yr old girl can PIC (solo glider, which is somewhat more demanding than a 172). 
 

 Frankly if I had my way basic med would replace all classes of medical, which the numbers and logic fully supports.

Edited Saturday at 06:43 PM by Jackk

[midlifeflyer]

53 minutes ago, bonal said:

To me run up and pre flight are two separate things. At the hangar I do an in depth walk around checking everything down to the fasteners oil, belts control surfaces prop blades tail play on and on.  I wish the Mooney had an easy open cowling like the pipers and others if they did I would open and do a thorough inspection as it is flashlight looking into the hatches and into the front opening.  Just wanted to be clear about my procedure 

Also to clarify, to me run-up, preflight, and before takeoff are  three separate things. I was just saying I separate my final before takeoff checks from the run-up. I wasn't even referring to the preflight inspection.

[midlifeflyer]

17 hours ago, bonal said:

Early on in my Mooney flying when I had to do my first unplanned go around.  It was a bounced landing and on the second bounce I fire walled the throttle the trim was way up and the nose shot straight up and it caught me by surprise yes I had the strength to push the yoke forward but it took some effort but mostly it was the suddenness and if I had reacted any slower I’m certain it would have stalled and slammed down onto the runway.  This is now locked into memory but at the time with so little experience I consider it lucky I pushed as hard as I did 

That's why the go around from final landing configuration is such an important part of  transition training and, even once you know to expect it, really should be practiced more often than it is. In a higher performance airplane, it's not just the pitch up. I think it's the yaw that needs to be countered that's the real loss of control risk. Even at best, airplanes don't climb particularly well sideways.

[bonal]

38 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If you would have done touch and go’s in your initial Mooney training, you would have been prepared for this. 
 

I’m just trying to cause trouble here.

Trouble accepted 

[bonal]

26 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Also to clarify, to me run-up, preflight, and before takeoff are  three separate things. I was just saying I separate my final before takeoff checks from the run-up. I wasn't even referring to the preflight inspection.

Fair enough 

[bonal]

21 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

That's why the go around from final landing configuration is such an important part of  transition training and, even once you know to expect it, really should be practiced more often than it is. In a higher performance airplane, it's not just the patch up. I think it's the yaw that needs to be countered that's the real loss of control risk. Even at best, airplanes don't climb particularly well sideways.

Yep, fortunately my first instructor was a stickler for stick and especially rudder.  They don’t climb well but they do descend well that way.

Edited Saturday at 07:26 PM by bonal

[Hank]

3 hours ago, bonal said:

Early on in my Mooney flying when I had to do my first unplanned go around.  It was a bounced landing and on the second bounce I fire walled the throttle the trim was way up and the nose shot straight up and it caught me by surprise yes I had the strength to push the yoke forward but it took some effort but mostly it was the suddenness and if I had reacted any slower I’m certain it would have stalled and slammed down onto the runway.  This is now locked into memory but at the time with so little experience I consider it lucky I pushed as hard as I did 

 

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

That's why the go around from final landing configuration is such an important part of  transition training and, even once you know to expect it, really should be practiced more often than it is. In a higher performance airplane, it's not just the patch up. I think it's the yaw that needs to be countered that's the real loss of control risk. Even at best, airplanes don't climb particularly well sideways.

My first real go around was coming home to my obstructed 3000' field, at night, on Thanksgiving Saturday night. ATC vectored me around the football TFR, bringing me directly across the field. 

On my second bounce, I fjrewalled everything and prayed "please don't hit the trees, please don't hit the trees," which were under the nose. Once I cleared them, I continued talking to myself "figure it out later, make a normal landing" over and over.

I don't recall any control issues, but I was very worried about hitting the trees. I probably had ~20 Mooney hours and a bit over 100 total time.

[1980Mooney]

6 hours ago, Echo said:

People died in Ovations with max trim on takeoffs…so there is that. 

Yes he was also on prescription Cyclobenzaprine/Flexeril muscle relaxant and Zofram which is also impairing.....so there is that.  

[jeremyc209]

On 1/17/2026 at 1:42 PM, Hank said:

I don't recall any control issues, but I was very worried about hitting the trees. I probably had ~20 Mooney hours and a bit over 100 total time.

Those first few dozen Mooney hours as a low time pilot are no joke.