LASAR prices

[PprophetBirdman]

Is this what we’re supposed to do? Pay LASAR twice as much for the same part? 

[varlajo]

I'm sure the markup on my air duct was at least 1000%

[philiplane]

You can buy the SA53s drain valve at Airparts Company for $23.

[Alan Maurer]

Mooney People,

Who else has stepped up to the plate to make Mooney parts available? Seems that Lasar can price a part but if the price seems too high, then look elsewhere.

Alan

[redbaron1982]

1 hour ago, PprophetBirdman said:

Is this what we’re supposed to do? Pay LASAR twice as much for the same part? 

I don't get the question... you're supposed to do whatever makes sense to you. If you feel better paying Lasar 2x, the go for it. If not, you can get the parts from Aircraft Spruce. Or, as mentioned above, get the alternative and pay 1/4 of Lasar price: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safairflush_05-01503.php

[EricJ]

Those parts aren't Mooney-specific, so there's no reason to not shop around to other vendors.   I think when somebody grossly overprices a common part they're telling you to buy it elsewhere.  

[PprophetBirdman]

I get that. As a mooniac, I want to support LASAR. 

[LANCECASPER]

11 hours ago, PprophetBirdman said:

I get that. As a mooniac, I want to support LASAR. 

I have bought Mooney specific parts from them when they have them, but I won't knowingly overpay them for a part readily available somewhere else where I can order it and get it in a couple days. 

[1980Mooney]

I was going to ask if those that subscribed to the "Lasar/Mooney Assurance" program got a discount on the SA53s Drain/Flush Valve.  But I see just posted in the General Forum that Lasar has announced that the "Mooney Assurance Program" has been discontinued and they are returning funds to those that paid.  

So they are back to charging whatever the market will bear.

Edited January 7 by 1980Mooney

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

So they are back to charging whatever the market will bear.

Or more... 

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

I was going to ask if those that subscribed to the "Lasar/Mooney Assurance" program got a discount on the SA53s Drain/Flush Valve.  But I see just posted in the General Forum that Lasar has announced that the "Mooney Assurance Program" has been discontinued and they are returning funds to those that paid.  

So they are back to charging whatever the market will bear.

To me it was never clear what they were selling. Was it an investment they were selling that could have been fallen under SEC guidelines?  Was it an equity ownership? Were you pre-paying for a future discount? Was it a shell game? Shouldn't there have been some kind of prospectus if they were holding your funds?

Just a guess but I think someone figured out that however it was set up it wasn't legal. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Hank]

7 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

To me it was never clear what they were selling. Was it an investment they were selling that could have been fallen under SEC guidelines?  Was it an equity ownership? Were you pre-paying for a future discount? Was it a shell game? Shouldn't there have been some kind of prospectus if they were holding your funds?

Just a guess but I think someone figured out that however it was set up it wasn't legal. Maybe I'm wrong.

My guess is that it was unclear enough that few were willing to pony up . . .

The funds were held in a non-interest-bearing account!

[jamesyql]

I signed up for a month of “bronze” out of sheer curiosity. Received zero communication from Lasar, never received my “portal” access, and cancelled before my second month’s renewal.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, jamesyql said:

I signed up for a month of “bronze” out of sheer curiosity. Received zero communication from Lasar, never received my “portal” access, and cancelled before my second month’s renewal.

Have you received your money back?

[Bartman]

7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

To me it was never clear what they were selling. Was it an investment they were selling that could have been fallen under SEC guidelines?  Was it an equity ownership? Were you pre-paying for a future discount? Was it a shell game? Shouldn't there have been some kind of prospectus if they were holding your funds?

Just a guess but I think someone figured out that however it was set up it wasn't legal. Maybe I'm wrong.

I agree. No matter the reason for shutting it down so quickly, it does not reflect well on LASAR, and is not a good sign. 

[jamesyql]

Have you received your money back?

Yep

[Schllc]

After talking to several people at Lasar and others, I had a better understanding of what they were trying to do, and it actually makes sense from their perspective, albeit a touch myopic, but only because of how convoluted and difficult it is to explain from their perspective. 

In their view, they are trying to keep the Type Certificate alive and operating.  If they cannot figure out how to make this work financially, the foreign owners will keep the TC active but take all the data and and engineering back to china and provide no support whatsoever. 
this will be a much different outcome than examples like the commander, because abandoning the TC actually makes production of parts by others much easier. If the TC is not abandoned then permission by the holder must be obtained. 
From their perspective I think the “support” was analogous to us paying an annual fee for access to this site. Aka keeping the TC alive and accessible. 
Even as I write this, I can see the challenge explaining this and soliciting funding for something so intangible and nebulous. 
If their plan was the better option than losing control of the TC I suppose remains to be seen…

Selling parts that are not Mooney specific, at double the competitors price does not appear to be a well thought out strategy either, but personally, I see their efforts as more clumsy and desperate than exploitative.  I could be wrong about all of this as well, it’s just my opinion, and based on limited information, and admittedly cursory understanding of the FAR as it pertains to this subject. 

 

PS.... Before I am flamed, I am not advocating for participation nor abandonment of this concept, just trying to share what I learned.

[SilentT]

@SchllcOn the surface a forfieted TC is a good thing if the market is prepared to step in with parts right? there are soo many moonies in the air its still a viable market vs complete abandonment? What I am missing here is, why are the 3rd party sellers able to be profitable and lasar needs 2x or 4x those other suppleirs?

[KSMooniac]

2 hours ago, SilentT said:

@SchllcOn the surface a forfieted TC is a good thing if the market is prepared to step in with parts right? there are soo many moonies in the air its still a viable market vs complete abandonment? What I am missing here is, why are the 3rd party sellers able to be profitable and lasar needs 2x or 4x those other suppleirs?

I expect the major vendors like Spruce or similar have enough volume and magnitudes more customers to support selling smaller standard parts, and cover the overhead for ordering, filling, packing, and shipping on a daily basis whereas LASAR does not.  I never ever thought of ordering tires, spark plugs, or fuel drain valves as the example here from any MSC.  If my plane were in their shop and they needed to replace something to get it done, fine, even if there is a markup over a Spruce price.  Frankly any MSC should not be in the business of selling parts like these via mail order IMO as it is just not efficient and likely would not generate enough profit to justify even offering it.  I expect any major Mooney shop has an Aviall account and gets regular parts delivered daily through that distribution channel that we cannot access.  MSC's should focus on providing specific parts and service to us and not be a one-stop-shop for parts that are already handled efficiently by other vendors.  Just my thoughts...  

I do almost all of my maintenance locally in my hangar, but I have used Maxwell's shop several times over the years.  They've sold me a tire and tube during an annual... OK.  It cost me more than I would buy them for from my local distributor but that was fine in the context of a visit there for work.  I would not order a tire from them to be shipped here, but I did *very gratefully* order a main gear door from them to be shipped here once upon a time.  

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, SilentT said:

@SchllcOn the surface a forfieted TC is a good thing if the market is prepared to step in with parts right? there are soo many moonies in the air its still a viable market vs complete abandonment? What I am missing here is, why are the 3rd party sellers able to be profitable and lasar needs 2x or 4x those other suppleirs?

I don’t see where @Schllc said anything about forfeiting the TC. Meijing Group most likely has the TC secured against debt that is owed by Mooney to Meijing. Vans Aircraft founder, VanGrusven did the same thing at Vans. Although a minority shareholder, having sold the majority of thecompany to the employees in an ESOP, VanGrunsven had secured all the assets with loans that he made to the company. When Vans went into bankruptcy, he wound up owning 100% of Vans… Again!  Regardless of whether it had been a  liquidation of assets or a stock reorganization, VanGrunsven was in the first position to own everything. 

I think that @Schllc quoted LASAR saying that Meijing will keep the TC active (not forfeit nor surrender it). The Chinese /Meijing may not have been smart pumping so much cash into Mooney, but that doesn’t mean that they are “stupid“. 

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

I don’t see where @Schllc said anything about forfeiting the TC. Meijing Group most likely has the TC secured against debt that is owed by Mooney to Meijing.

Most importantly, they will keep the TC active, yet provide no support. 

[Justin Schmidt]

18 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

To me it was never clear what they were selling. Was it an investment they were selling that could have been fallen under SEC guidelines?  Was it an equity ownership? Were you pre-paying for a future discount? Was it a shell game? Shouldn't there have been some kind of prospectus if they were holding your funds?

Just a guess but I think someone figured out that however it was set up it wasn't legal. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think it was abundantly clear what they were doing. Grasping at straws to raise capital to buy mooney with no benefit to the funders. No shortage of horrible management these days.

[Schllc]

3 minutes ago, Justin Schmidt said:

I think it was abundantly clear what they were doing. Grasping at straws to raise capital to buy mooney with no benefit to the funders. No shortage of horrible management these days.

You are right that there is no shortage of horrible management.
However, in this instance,  from what I know first hand your assessment could not be further from the truth. 
In their opinion, the benefit would be an operating parts manufacturing business, providing owners in a niche industry, parts and answers to keep the fleet viable. 
Was it poorly defined and communicated, absolutely,  but they want to make a living, and the options they have with Mooney’s obligations and juxtaposition are limited.
If they fail, and the Chinese do what they have stated , we will really be in a bad spot. 
If an owner of the active TC does not make parts or support the fleet, parts simply will not be available, and there are more parts than not, that are not able to  be recovered from salvage aircraft. 
I would encourage you to be a little more circumspect and thoughtful with pejorative accusations, especially when you don’t have first hand information. 
For what it’s worth, I am pretty sure if you called them and asked for an explanation, it would be edifying.  
It was not compelling enough for me to subscribe to the assurance program, but I certainly left with a much better understanding of why they thought it made sense. 
I actually do think it made sense, it just needed to be defined and communicated in a better way, so people could actually understand the “benefit”.