Retract Gear or Flaps First in a Go Around ?

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

The gear came up, then the flaps were raised too quickly before trimming down, then the  trim got stuck full up.  It took both hands pushing hard forward  to keep control of the plane.  While pushing hard on the yoke, we both finally are able to break the trim lock and return to normal flight.

SERVICE INSTRUCTION M20-88A

[hazek]

2 hours ago, donkaye, MCFI said:

The gear came up, then the flaps were raised too quickly before trimming down, then the  trim got stuck full up.  It took both hands pushing hard forward  to keep control of the plane.

Arguably if you had raised flaps to take off position first, and tried to retrim that pressure, then raised the gear, perhaps you wouldn't have been in a position to struggle against the full pitch up moment of retracted flaps with no functioning trim and at the higher airspeed due to retracted gear.

I'm basically a baby compared to your experience and so obviously no one should listen to me and perhaps I too will learn the same lessons as you have and changed my ways someday. But I've done several go arounds already, the way the POH says for my Bravo, and found that to work out well. So I'll stick to that, if nothing else, due to the law of primacy. I also think my arguments why raising flaps to take off first hold water and it's perhaps the reason why POH was written this way. To repeat, the moment is less at slower speed, and more gradual when flaps are reduced in stages allowing time to retrim the pressure, the gear staying down longer provides a safety net if an inadvertent touch down happens when performing the go around late, and finally flaps TO and gear down is the takeoff configuration in which my plane can climb above obstacles.

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

the biggest problem being lack of practice  - not really being prepared for a go-around - not whether you move flaps to the takeoff position or raise the gear first.

This is probably the most important point. I brief the go around sequence before every single landing, always.

[donkaye, MCFI]

16 minutes ago, hazek said:

Arguably if you had raised flaps to take off position first, and tried to retrim that pressure, then raised the gear, perhaps you wouldn't have been in a position to struggle against the full pitch up moment of retracted flaps with no functioning trim and at the higher airspeed due to retracted gear.

You've got to be kidding.  What happens when you raise the flaps? The nose pitches up, which is exactly what we're working to prevent.  

[donkaye, MCFI]

2 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Trim lock?  

The trim wheel got stuck in the full up position and required a significant amount of pressure to release it.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, hazek said:

. . . the gear staying down longer provides a safety net if an inadvertent touch down happens when performing the go around late.

Thus the important part about raising gear:

• Full throttle
• POSITIVE RATE, Gear Up 
• Flaps up when clear

(Just like every takeoff)

[Barneyw]

Always an interesting discussion.

I've read most of the posts so may have missed some of the points made.

The first point I'd like to to make is that we all should be comfortable in operating the aircraft in all configurations at the worst possible time which means a go around from a baulked landing fully configured at slow speed and at night. We should be always ready for it and know what to do if and when it happens and it will happen.

While I agree with bringing the gear up first (I have a "Johnson Bar" which brings its own challenges) I disagree with the absolute statement "gear up, flaps up". I believe more correctly it should be "gear up, flap up in stages" at an appropriate speed and height. I say this for two reasons 1. you should never dump all your flaps on retraction at a critical phase of flight ie low to the ground plus slow and 2. we are talking to pilots with various experience levels so we need to be careful of what we say.

For IFR approaches I fly down the slot gear down at 95 - 100KIAS and with my own personal minimas should always be able to configure further when visual. However, if i ever had to fly an approach in anger I would be prepared to land flapless and be comfortable with that.

For touch and goes I raise the flaps, then lever down and pump twice = 15º and run the (electric) trim forward for 2 secs. This makes for a comfortable almost in trim aircraft. This is particularly useful for night circuits. There is no doubt that a fully configured GA is a hand full for the uninitiated and for those with manual systems can be quite demanding especially in pitch control. When I first started my IR training in the aircraft my first missed saw me flying the aircraft with one hand and the "Johnson Bar" in the other stuck in a partially retracted position unable to overcome the forces. This happened because the TOGA setting for the FD was set IMO too low which meant the aircraft accelerated rapidly. This has since been rectified.

The uptake from all this is know thy aircraft and always be GA/missed minded and treat the landing, or becoming visual, as a bonus.

Cheers

Barney 

[PT20J]

On my M20J with electric trim and electric flaps I find that the trim servo speed pretty closely matches the flap motor speed so if I actuate and hold the trim switch simultaneously with actuating the flap switch then the elevator force is minimal when either raising or lowering the flaps. 

[Deb]

Adding fuel to the fire (from the digital version, revised 2/10/2015):

 

[PT20J]

11 minutes ago, Deb said:

Adding fuel to the fire (from the digital version, revised 2/10/2015):

 

It looks like a comment there in the pdf file. Mooney had been doing that rather than revising the documents and rolling the revision. What’s it say?

[Deb]

3 minutes ago, PT20J said:

It looks like a comment there in the pdf file. Mooney had been doing that rather than revising the documents and rolling the revision. What’s it say?

Unfortunately, nothing pertaining to the rationale.

[PT20J]

So, it appears that the original POH indicating gear first was an error, later corrected by comment to agree with earlier versions of the POH. Interesting. Thanks, David. 

[hazek]

10 hours ago, Deb said:

Adding fuel to the fire (from the digital version, revised 2/10/2015):

Ha. So they didn't correct a mistake by putting a new order in, they made a mistake!

 

But a test that I really wish someone would do is testing the acceleration after either gear is raised or flaps is raised from a slow near stall speed - Vref or slightly below. Because correct me if I'm wrong but isn't gear only parasitic(form) drag, which increases with the square of speed and therefore it's minimal at slowest speeds? And aren't flaps at slow speeds far more induced drag than parasitic drag, which increases with the decrease of speed which therefore requires a higher AoA i.e. higher Cl? Plus full flaps add far more drag than lift?

Perhaps the logic of raising flaps first to flaps TO at slow speeds is that we want to remove the insidious part of the configuration AT slow speeds first? Maybe the danger of full flaps vs gear is at speeds so slow that put you on the backside of the power curve? In that situation raising gear will not help as much as raising flaps partially first in order to quickly reduce a lot of drag allowing us to accelerate out of the backside and establish a positive rate of climb?

This discussion appears to me as if we're talking past each other because at no point was it clearly defined what this supposed go around looks like. How low are we? How fast are we? I will concede that raising gear first vs flaps to TO does not matter when still 300ft AGL and at Vapp and is potentially beneficial as it's "simpler". But I would argue it does mater when bouncing and at nearly Vs0. And to me it makes sense to have the muscle memory that works in all scenarios.

[jetdriven]

On 9/26/2025 at 3:36 PM, donkaye, MCFI said:

The trim wheel got stuck in the full up position and required a significant amount of pressure to release it.

Why did it get stuck in the full up position? And why was the trim on the full up stop to begin with? 

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, hazek said:

This discussion appears to me as if we're talking past each other because at no point was it clearly defined what this supposed go around looks like. How low are we? How fast are we? I will concede that raising gear first vs flaps to TO does not matter when still 300ft AGL and at Vapp and is potentially beneficial as it's "simpler". But I would argue it does mater when bouncing and at nearly Vs0. And to me it makes sense to have the muscle memory that works in all scenarios.

That's a good point. It hasn't been clearly stated, but I would expect a discussion on a subject like this to be focused on the most critical situation.  That's definitely where my thoughts lie. 

[Yetti]

On 9/27/2025 at 9:40 PM, PT20J said:

On my M20J with electric trim and electric flaps I find that the trim servo speed pretty closely matches the flap motor speed so if I actuate and hold the trim switch simultaneously with actuating the flap switch then the elevator force is minimal when either raising or lowering the flaps. 

This is what I was recently taught for the S model.   But being a F driver for 10 years I have reverted back to manual trim wheel.

[Yetti]

38 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

That's a good point. It hasn't been clearly stated, but I would expect a discussion on a subject like this to be focused on the most critical situation.  That's definitely where my thoughts lie. 

critical situation will be responded to with muscle memory/flow.    So do what you do on normal take off.  For me just switch to the S model was weird because the flaps and gear are in different places.   Totally messed with muscle memory and flow. 

[exM20K]

Not all go-around are the same: 1) someone pulled out on the runway while I’m on short final vs 2)I just bounced the second time, the stall warning is screaming and I am not even close to having total control of the plane.  
From the perspective of someone operating a 310 HP Acclaim off a short field…

Scenario (1) is low stress, obviously, and I do not believe rigid adherence to the POH is helpful here.  Full power is not required to arrest the descent rate and begin acceleration.  You really have all the time in the world in this scenario, so add some power to arrest the descent, positive rate gear up while trimming down, flaps, flaps.  
 

Dealing with Scenario (2) is much more urgent. The pilot must restore flying speed first. Urgently. Full power, trim / push down and don’t touch anything until full control is restored.

My K and my TN both liked rolling in full nose-up trim in the round out to flare. I imagine the nose-heavy Rockets are the same.  Full power when configured (including trim) for landing creates a very strong nose-up pitch plus torque/p-factor. Retracting flaps moves center of lift forward, exacerbating this pitch change.

While I choose to fly the way @donkaye, MCFI teaches, both sequences will work, so maybe choose one, and practice it. I believe gear/flaps/flaps permits a drag reduction while buying time to add nose down trim before inducing the big pitch up with flaps. But other than a porpoised landing recovery where the immediate priority is to regain flying speed, neither technique should be measurably better in performance, just in workload.

-dan

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

critical situation will be responded to with muscle memory/flow.  

Which is exactly why  

On 9/26/2025 at 12:54 PM, midlifeflyer said:

I'll stick with the biggest problem being lack of practice 

 

[MikeOH]

WOW!

I never imagined this thread would hit 7 pages!  It's as bad as an ROP/LOP 'discussion'!

So, here are my OPINIONS on this:

A go-around is NOT the same as a take-off (DUH!) On a take-off you are already climbing and accelerating with full power and take-off flaps, not to mention being properly trimmed. So, to just a priori say you should treat the GA the same way, gear then flaps, seems poor justification.

Prior to a GA you are descending, at low power, with full flaps, and NOT trimmed for the GA.  Something unexpected happens necessitating the GA. FULL POWER!! Then push to keep the nose down and get the plane accelerating and CLIMBING!  Until it's CLIMBING I am NOT raising the gear!  Meanwhile, I would like to get rid of drag.  Thus, getting rid of full flaps, i.e. going to TO flaps, seems logical.  If, I do continue to sink, either because of weight/DA issues, or the slight loss of lift from going from full to TO flaps, the wheels are still down and I will NOT have a gear-up situation!  I also now have time to trim. Once I am climbing, and accelerating, with TO flaps set, I am only THEN in a TO configuration...THEN the gear is raised and the TO flaps removed as I further accelerate and trim appropriately.

[Pinecone]

7 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

WOW!

I never imagined this thread would hit 7 pages!  It's as bad as an ROP/LOP 'discussion'!

So, here are my OPINIONS on this:

A go-around is NOT the same as a take-off (DUH!) On a take-off you are already climbing and accelerating with full power and take-off flaps, not to mention being properly trimmed. So, to just a priori say you should treat the GA the same way, gear then flaps, seems poor justification.

Prior to a GA you are descending, at low power, with full flaps, and NOT trimmed for the GA.  Something unexpected happens necessitating the GA. FULL POWER!! Then push to keep the nose down and get the plane accelerating and CLIMBING!  Until it's CLIMBING I am NOT raising the gear!  Meanwhile, I would like to get rid of drag.  Thus, getting rid of full flaps, i.e. going to TO flaps, seems logical.  If, I do continue to sink, either because of weight/DA issues, or the slight loss of lift from going from full to TO flaps, the wheels are still down and I will NOT have a gear-up situation!  I also now have time to trim. Once I am climbing, and accelerating, with TO flaps set, I am only THEN in a TO configuration...THEN the gear is raised and the TO flaps removed as I further accelerate and trim appropriately.

1)  You do NOT need to go to full power for all go arounds.  1 mile final, someone rolls out on the runway, you can increase power, but not full power to stop descending and go about the rest at a relaxed pace.

2)  EVERYONE who has advocated gear up first has also emphasized POSITIVE rate first.

3)  If you have not established a positive climb, removing flaps could cause you to settle.

Removing partial flaps is different on different airplanes.  For me, in my 1986 M20K, I have to look down at the console to see the flap position and the switch is Up - Hold - Down, NO presets.  

[PT20J]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Why did it get stuck in the full up position? And why was the trim on the full up stop to begin with? 

If the forward trim lead screw does not have the stepped stop nuts it can jam if enough torque is applied. The old BK trim servos have plenty of torque. I doubt a Garmin GSA 28 would do so. I don't know about others. 

Ks and later have a bob weight and variable down spring instead of trim bungees and seem to need a lot of nose up trim in the approach configuration. Also, because the elevator forces are higher in flare than many other airplanes, some have developed the habit of rolling in nose up trim to the stop during the flare (which of course exacerbates the nose up problem if you have to go around, especially after a bounce.)

[MikeOH]

Just now, Pinecone said:

1)  You do NOT need to go to full power for all go arounds.  1 mile final, someone rolls out on the runway, you can increase power, but not full power to stop descending and go about the rest at a relaxed pace.

2)  EVERYONE who has advocated gear up first has also emphasized POSITIVE rate first.

3)  If you have not established a positive climb, removing flaps could cause you to settle.

Removing partial flaps is different on different airplanes.  For me, in my 1986 M20K, I have to look down at the console to see the flap position and the switch is Up - Hold - Down, NO presets.  

Sure, all GAs are NOT the same.  But, worst case, you MAY need to apply full power.

Of course, how to remove the flaps is different on different planes.  My F is like yours, just a momentary contact switch; I haven't found it difficult to reach it blindly, start the retraction, and glance at the indicator.

It's pretty clear from examples that even various POHs go both ways on this.

That's why I capitalized OPINIONS...and why I stayed out of this, because I just knew someone would ARGUE...hence the 7 frickin' pages!  This really isn't a RIGHT or WRONG situation, it's technique.

[Pinecone]

You were the one that emphasized FULL POWER!! complete with two exclamation points.

And if I am doing a full power, low altitude, slow go around, I do not want more nose up pitching when I may be backside of the power curve already.

[midlifeflyer]

30 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

So, to just a priori say you should treat the GA the same way, gear then flaps, seems poor justification.

Good point, but treating the GA the same way as a takeoff doesn't necessarily mean gear then flaps.

The way the GA is written up in many POH is flaps (T/O) - gear -flaps (remaining). Since we don't takeoff with full flaps, when that's the recommended sequence, I thinks the purpose is to move us from the landing configuration to the takeoff/climb configuration.

At least I don't think people are suggesting that flaps before gear means flaps to zero before gear.

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Good point, but treating the GA the same way as a takeoff doesn't necessarily mean gear then flaps.

The way the GA is written up in many POH is flaps (T/O) - gear -flaps (remaining). Since we don't takeoff with full flaps, when that's the recommended sequence, I thinks the purpose is to move us from the landing configuration to the takeoff/climb configuration.

That was exactly my point: get to TO config. Personally, I prefer going to TO flaps, then gear up (assuming positive rate), then bleed off the rest of the flaps. As you say, some POHs, including some Mooneys, are written that way.