My Engine overhaul isn't going very well... :-/. Advice please.

[aviatoreb]

I called around including to RAM aircraft which had been one of the few top shops I had gotten quotes from back in April and was my near finalist.  I went with Penn Yan at that stage because of their equally excellent reputation, slightly better quote and also the fact that they are just 3.5 hours drive from my house in case I had the urge to check in on them plus similarly close to Weber the R&R shop.

Well I remember that RAM had quoted me also an overhaul exchange price with reasonable penalties if the camshaft and or case had problems.  I called them and explained my situation and they said they do have all the necessary parts in stock and they would honor the original concept of overhaul exchange.  TSIO520NB's are a bread and butter engine for that shop, so they keep stock.  And I called Penn Yan and they were so generous in their interest in seeing me land well and they understood well why I was not excited to go with an AirPower new or rebuilt zero time engine.  So I signed to RAM and my engine will ship to them and this project will now become a RAM engine.  And just as important, this engine will be spec'ed as I had wanted it in the first place again from a different excellent shop.  And of course as is only fair I will pay Penn Yan for their time and labor I am in to it so far.

I was already underwhelmed by the concept of a black box continental zero time engine which is just a paper work trick to call it zero time but it is only an overhauled engine from the continental shop with unknown parts.  I was more so worried abotu their cylinder quality.  Well now I know ... that zero time engine I was sporting had a camshaft put into it that was literally on its last overhaul legs since it had been ground down to minimum spec at that last overhaul and was now too narrow to consider grounding down further.  So I am even less impressed by continental zero time engines than the already low opinion I had.

[exM20K]

All good. Did you discuss with RAM having someone work the new cylinders?

-dan

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

I called around including to RAM aircraft which had been one of the few top shops I had gotten quotes from back in April and was my near finalist.  I went with Penn Yan at that stage because of their equally excellent reputation, slightly better quote and also the fact that they are just 3.5 hours drive from my house in case I had the urge to check in on them plus similarly close to Weber the R&R shop.

Well I remember that RAM had quoted me also an overhaul exchange price with reasonable penalties if the camshaft and or case had problems.  I called them and explained my situation and they said they do have all the necessary parts in stock and they would honor the original concept of overhaul exchange.  TSIO520NB's are a bread and butter engine for that shop, so they keep stock.  And I called Penn Yan and they were so generous in their interest in seeing me land well and they understood well why I was not excited to go with an AirPower new or rebuilt zero time engine.  So I signed to RAM and my engine will ship to them and this project will now become a RAM engine.  And just as important, this engine will be spec'ed as I had wanted it in the first place again from a different excellent shop.  And of course as is only fair I will pay Penn Yan for their time and labor I am in to it so far.

I was already underwhelmed by the concept of a black box continental zero time engine which is just a paper work trick to call it zero time but it is only an overhauled engine from the continental shop with unknown parts.  I was more so worried abotu their cylinder quality.  Well now I know ... that zero time engine I was sporting had a camshaft put into it that was literally on its last overhaul legs since it had been ground down to minimum spec at that last overhaul and was now too narrow to consider grounding down further.  So I am even less impressed by continental zero time engines than the already low opinion I had.

Glad to hear you've got a good path to getting what you want. 

The only way to know for certain that you're getting a new crankshaft is to buy a new engine.   A factory "rebuild" should have a crank that conforms to the same limits as a new crank, but it still may be a used crank.   An overhaul only needs to meet servicable limits, which allow more wear than "rebuild" limits.   A "factory overhaul" will only be gauranteed to meet servicable limits, not new, but shouldn't get a zero-time logbook.  Only "new" or "rebuilt" engines get zero-time logbooks, so a crank in an actual zero-time engine should meet new tolerance limits when first installed.   I'd think it'd be unusual for a crank to not meet servicable limits at first overhaul after a "new" or "rebuilt" installation, but it may be possible.

In any case, I hope the story goes smoothly from here.   It sounds like Penn Yann treated you right, though.   That's good to hear.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Glad to hear you've got a good path to getting what you want. 

The only way to know for certain that you're getting a new crankshaft is to buy a new engine.   A factory "rebuild" should have a crank that conforms to the same limits as a new crank, but it still may be a used crank.   An overhaul only needs to meet servicable limits, which allow more wear than "rebuild" limits.   A "factory overhaul" will only be gauranteed to meet servicable limits, not new, but shouldn't get a zero-time logbook.  Only "new" or "rebuilt" engines get zero-time logbooks, so a crank in an actual zero-time engine should meet new tolerance limits when first installed.   I'd think it'd be unusual for a crank to not meet servicable limits at first overhaul after a "new" or "rebuilt" installation, but it may be possible.

In any case, I hope the story goes smoothly from here.   It sounds like Penn Yann treated you right, though.   That's good to hear.

Penn Yan has been a fantastic and honorable company to work with.  I did do an overhaul with them many years ago on my Lycoming IO360 from my then Diamond DA40.  It ran like a top.  And I only have an even higher opinion of them now.

All I know is my zero time Continental engine was not so terrific once disassembled than I would expect for a top dollar service, so I consider "zero time" a parlor trick only available by regulatory slight of hand and not worth it.

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, exM20K said:

All good. Did you discuss with RAM having someone work the new cylinders?

-dan

Yes.  And btw my engine will have superior cylinders which they say (and I hear from others) have much better valves out of the box than continental.

[Pinecone]

On 1/18/2025 at 10:27 AM, exM20K said:

but before I did, we pulled a cylinder from each side to get a look at the cam and lifters.

Why did you pull cylinders?  On a Continental you can pull the lifters and see the cam without pulling cylinders.

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Why did you pull cylinders?  On a Continental you can pull the lifters and see the cam without pulling cylinders.

Not sure. Maybe that is what was done and communicated poorly. 

[MDMooney]

Sounds like you made your decision already but I went through a similar decision path with my Bravo’s engine. I sent it to Victor with suspicion of issues which was confirmed - two cracks on crank, along with a bunch of corrosion on counterweights + cam, worn gears etc. To me it was worth the peace of mind to get their improvements and detail oriented approach vs getting a reman/new. Plus the new/reman were quoted at 22 months lead time hah. 

Edited January 22 by MDMooney

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, MDMooney said:

Sounds like you made your decision already but I went through a similar decision path with my Bravo’s engine. I sent it to Victor with suspicion of issues which was confirmed - two cracks on crank, along with a bunch of corrosion on counterweights + cam, worn gears etc. To me it was worth the peace of mind to get their improvements and detail oriented approach vs getting a reman/new. Plus the new/reman were quoted at 22 months lead time hah. 

Victor was on my short list.

There are some shops that I think  provide a better engine standard than factory.