Gear warning and manual crank down today

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

True, I suppose if the limit switches don't trigger a stop then it could keep running enough to buckle the rods.  That would be essentially similar to hitting an obstruction during movement, except the obstruction is the over-center mechanism trying to go past it's normal position.  That is not "wear" either... it is a failure as far as I see it.

Yes, I agree.  It’s also different on the later gear systems that have some kind of stop built into the actuator.  The early ones just count on the limit switches and the little tabs being adjusted correctly.

[Ragsf15e]

5 hours ago, bixmooney said:

follow up on the gear issue. 

I flew it a couple times and the alarm went off with the gear up and then would not run down with the electric gear motor.   I pulled the breaker, engaged the crank and cranked it, no green light.  I put the breaker back in and it ran down with the gear motor.    

Back on jacks and the push or pull tube is bent and looks from wear to have been bent a little and the tabs on it were not engaging the switches in the belly.   The electric motor also seems to have a dead spot in it where it does not want to run.  

i have the 40:1 actuator.  

The actuator and motor seems hard to locate.   I have read other threads on this and similar actuator issues.    

Does anyone have experience with this and who rebuilds them or may have them ? or I see in some posts that it may be acceptable to use another actuator ? 

The actuator and electric motor seem to be one unit. 

The tube assembly seems available out there from used and checking with Moooney.  

I’m really sorry to hear about this happening to you.  Surprised as well, because others that have ended up with bent rods had the motor circuit breaker popping as the motor tried to run the gear past fully extended. Nobody else has mentioned the gear alarm, but I guess it could have something to do with a failed limit switch as well?  I don’t know.  That parts weird because you shouldn’t be able to get the gear alarm with a high power setting.  

Be careful with the airplane now. You don’t want the gear to collapse.

[AJ88V]

@bixmooney thanks for updating us on your findings.  Sorry for your troubles on a brand new to you aircraft, but that's all part of ownership when you're dealing with a 50+ year old aircraft.  If it's any consolation, I had to do a complete engine overhaul within two years of ownership due to a cracked crankcase.

You might want to contact Lasar about the gear actuator overhaul.  They may even have a good pushrod tube in inventory.  

While you're at it, you'll want those 40:1 gears looked at.  They supposedly look good when inspected from the edges of the gears, but the center of the gear faces wear out and you need to disassemble to see that.

Good luck.  I'm sure this will be cheaper than an engine overhaul. LOL!!!

[bixmooney]

Thank you 

I may as well post a few pictures and maybe help someone else know what is going on down there. 
 

that is my ITT actuator and bent tube and the circle are the tabs that hit the switches. 
 

I am just getting decent at flying this thing and willing to pay a premium to get this thing back in the air to keep learning to use it !    
Flying a mooney around 115 mph with the gear down would be rather embarrassing 

 

[PT20J]

Info on the ITT actuator: https://www.donmaxwell.com/ad-75-23-04-sb-m20-190

 

[EricJ]

That tube definitely needs to be fixed.   Once you have a straight tube in there, you may want to go through the entire gear rigging process in the manual.   That will assure that everything is correct, the preloads are right, and the switches activate at the correct time.   It's a tedious process, but isn't too bad.   If you re-rig everything you'll probably fix whatever caused that in the first place.

 

[AJ88V]

2 hours ago, bixmooney said:

Thank you 

I may as well post a few pictures and maybe help someone else know what is going on down there. 
Flying a mooney around 115 mph with the gear down would be rather embarrassing 

We had a family trip to Florida planned one year and a week before my gear breaker popped and I had to crank the legs down manually. A&P couldn’t look at it before our travel plans. Thought about flying down with the gear extended since a slow flight was better than a 20 hour drive and hey 120 mphis still faster than a 172 but my mechanic told me it wasn’t legal to do that.

 We drove instead. my gear problem turned out to be a weak breaker, amen.

 

[EricJ]

19 minutes ago, AJ88V said:

We had a family trip to Florida planned one year and a week before my gear breaker popped and I had to crank the legs down manually. A&P couldn’t look at it before our travel plans. Thought about flying down with the gear extended since a slow flight was better than a 20 hour drive and hey 120 mphis still faster than a 172 but my mechanic told me it wasn’t legal to do that.

 We drove instead. my gear problem turned out to be a weak breaker, amen.

FWIW, if gear operation isn't included in the required equipment list, then it can be flown with the gear inop per FAR 91.213(d), if marked inop and disabled by pulling the breaker or similar action.   Note that 91.213(d)(4) says that the pilot can determine whether it is safe for operation or not.

I have friends with an old C210A who flew it for over a year with the gear down, which made it basically a C182, because a part was unavailable to fix the gear.    A Mooney is worse because of the crappy aero with the gear down, including the big holes under the wings that don't help climb performance any, but it is certainly possible to fly it that way.   I've done it when I had an electrical failure, and it's certainly not unusual to fly airplanes with gear issues to other airports to get it repaired.   Just FYI, but peace with the A&P is always a consideration as well. 

[bixmooney]

47 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That tube definitely needs to be fixed.   Once you have a straight tube in there, you may want to go through the entire gear rigging process in the manual.   That will assure that everything is correct, the preloads are right, and the switches activate at the correct time.   It's a tedious process, but isn't too bad.   If you re-rig everything you'll probably fix whatever caused that in the first place.

 

Agree, maybe there was a rigging problem that started all this. 

I would like to just buy a new tube, but not available from Mooney and looking around, no luck in finding a straight salvaged.    Is there a process to refurbish / straighted it ?  

I located an Actuator 

Thank you to everyone who has given me input on this.  I am learning fast.  

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, bixmooney said:

I would like to just buy a new tube, but not available from Mooney and looking around, no luck in finding a straight salvaged. 

When you say "not available from Mooney" does that mean Mooney has refused to produce it, or "not on the shelf"?  I doubt that part came from a third-party.

[bixmooney]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:39 PM, Fly Boomer said:

When you say "not available from Mooney" does that mean Mooney has refused to produce it, or "not on the shelf"?  I doubt that part came from a third-party.

I don’t know if that is actually the case and may have misspoken.     I know that the mechanic said they couldn’t get it , so I started looking. 
 

Update on my landing gear:

 I was able to find an actuator , looks like electro-mechanical Vickers? from a plane that was functional when removed

the lasar rebuilt ones available on the website said $ 16 thousand 

and my gear retract tube assembly 560244-501 , the bent tube 

now waiting for mechanic availability, because as people have said, it needs to gone through and make sure the rigging is all right.  

the ITT actuator, I should have rebuilt 

I think I need to keep flying and it will be gear down and less than 120mph looking silly with the gear down.   

 

[sdmideas]

Sounds like a D model;)

[T. Peterson]

On 12/20/2024 at 12:34 PM, PT20J said:

Info on the ITT actuator: https://www.donmaxwell.com/ad-75-23-04-sb-m20-190

 

Hi Skip,

That was a very interesting article from DM that you posted. I have noticed that you very often come up with relevant information regarding whatever technical problem is under discussion. I very much appreciate your efforts on our behalf and I am sure the entire forum does as well.

Several others are also very helpful and I express my gratitude to you all.

[T. Peterson]

3 hours ago, bixmooney said:

I don’t know if that is actually the case and may have misspoken.     I know that the mechanic said they couldn’t get it , so I started looking. 
 

Update on my landing gear:

 I was able to find an actuator , looks like electro-mechanical Vickers? from a plane that was functional when removed

the lasar rebuilt ones available on the website said $ 16 thousand 

and my gear retract tube assembly 560244-501 , the bent tube 

now waiting for mechanic availability, because as people have said, it needs to gone through and make sure the rigging is all right.  

the ITT actuator, I should have rebuilt 

I think I need to keep flying and it will be gear down and less than 120mph looking silly with the gear down.   

 

I am certainly sorry this has happened to you, but your tenacity is admirable.

[A64Pilot]

If I understand the system, if one of the limit switches failed and the actuator continued to run until the tube bent, two things.

First the tube can only be bent by being pushed, so whatever direction pushes the tube is the direction that bent it. You can’t bend it by pulling on it?

Second if the tube got bent from a failed limit switch, then the tab that actuates the switch would also be bent?

[A64Pilot]

That tube would surely be an easy OPP part?

[bixmooney]

4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

If I understand the system, if one of the limit switches failed and the actuator continued to run until the tube bent, two things.

First the tube can only be bent by being pushed, so whatever direction pushes the tube is the direction that bent it. You can’t bend it by pulling on it?

Second if the tube got bent from a failed limit switch, then the tab that actuates the switch would also be bent?

I don’t think the tab was bent.

 I kinda understand how it all works but a little sketchy on the whole thing together.   The parts diagrams show bits and pieces of it and I have not seen a diagram of the whole thing from actuator to wheels 

[bixmooney]

4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

That tube would surely be an easy OPP part?

I don’t know about that.   It’s not super beefy and has a slight barrel shape to it, hollow, aluminum ?