Avoiding baggage door opening

[Bigdaddie]

I recently flew with a fellow Mooney pilot (in my day job) who had a most excellent suggestion for totally avoiding a possible baggage door opening.  It’s so simple it even slipped by my very simple mind.  Leave the key in the baggage door.  If you go to start without the baggage door locked, you’re unable.  Until recently reading about baggage doors coming open and impacting the tail, I never locked it before flight.  Now it’s a ritual.  It should be on the before start checklist frankly.

 

Fly safe!

Edited November 3 by Bigdaddie
added a line

[Oscar Avalle]

Good point

[MikeOH]

Yuup!

That's been my technique for the last 7 years.  I actually leave the baggage door open with the keys dangling from the lock until I'm ready to fly; closing and locking the baggage door and removing the key is the last thing I do before climbing in.

[DCarlton]

If I close my baggage door, I lock it.  And every time I board the airplane, I tug on the handle.  

[Pinecone]

My plane no longer uses a key to start, so that doesn't work for me.

I used to do that though.

[AJ88V]

Not really a great idea to LOCK the baggage door. That’s the escape hatch in the case of a rough landing that jams your passenger door.  There’s actually a mod to tie a loop of piano wire to the latching mechanism so you can unlatch the baggage door from the inside.

 

But back to the original question, I *try* to tug the baggage door when boarding the plane. Leaving it wide open until latching and leaving the keys in the lock are both good habits, as is looking back at the baggage door when you check the passenger door before takeoff. That saved me from taking off with it open just last week.  Felt pretty foolish shutting down the engine so I could latch the d@mned baggage before taking the rwy, especially with another plane coming up the taxiway behind me.

[phxcobraz]

I just latch it EVERY time I enter it. Throw in the pitot flag? Latch it. Put in baggage and walk to get more? latch it. 
I had an indecent when I first bought it and aborted a takeoff. 
The lock is questionable at best so I don’t like to trust it for anything. 

[kortopates]

Not really a great idea to LOCK the baggage door. That’s the escape hatch in the case of a rough landing that jams your passenger door.  There’s actually a mod to tie a loop of piano wire to the latching mechanism so you can unlatch the baggage door from the inside.
….

Actually many of us consider it essential and most of the Mooney PPP instructors won’t fly with you unless it is locked simply because we have seen many baggage doors open in flight causing damage over the years - but never seen a verified locked door open in flight. If it opens in cruise it’s going to depart the aircraft and likely do damage in flight. Just a few years ago a UK pilot had that happen and the door got wedged in the elevator making the aircraft very difficult to control. But luckily there was a large grass field directly below them that enabled them to safely make an emergency landing.
You can read about it here on Mooneyspace.


Then contrast the great many doors that have opened on the runway and in flight with how often the baggage door was used by first responders to rescue a crew member - that’s a zero to the best of my knowledge. Every rescue i’ve seen the roof was literally cut off, neck braces put on and then they were carefully lifted out of the cockpit on a backboard.
Even with the gear going through the wing, the door is still openable.

i do know of a couple cases where the baggage door was used for self rescue when after landing they couldn’t get the door to open and there was no one around to hand the keys too through the storm window to have someone unlock it for you. But that’s due to a bad lock that needs replacing. These are only $5 Chicago cabinet locks unless you upgrade them to more secure Medco locks, as i have done on mine after i had to get rescued on the ground due to a bad lock.

All of the modern mooney’s have a factory mechanism to open a locked baggage door from the inside. But what you describe is a great option for similar method to unlock from inside the vintage mooney’s. Just not as secure as the factory method.

Personally i suggest you reconsider and make it a habit to lock your baggage door before every flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jetdriven]

Actually, the UK pilot, his baggage door handle was closed flat, and likely locked, but whoever was maintaining the airplane had the hitch pin underneath of the interior emergency release, instead of on top of it.  It actutally forces it unlocked. His aircraft actually did not conform to the type certificate and it was not airworthy because of that. Theres actually an AD on those baggage door mechanisms.

[PT20J]

16 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Theres actually an AD on those baggage door mechanisms.

AD 88-25-11 

Applicability: Models M20J (Serial Numbers 24-0084, 24-0378 through 24-1645, and 24-3000 through 24-3056) and M20K (Serial Numbers 25-0001 through 25-1160) certificated in any category.

Comply SBM20-239A

[Danb]

21 hours ago, Bigdaddie said:

I recently flew with a fellow Mooney pilot (in my day job) who had a most excellent suggestion for totally avoiding a possible baggage door opening.  It’s so simple it even slipped by my very simple mind.  Leave the key in the baggage door.  If you go to start without the baggage door locked, you’re unable.  Until recently reading about baggage doors coming open and impacting the tail, I never locked it before flight.  Now it’s a ritual.  It should be on the before start checklist frankly.

 

Fly safe!

Exactly what I do

[AJ88V]

9 hours ago, kortopates said:

Actually many of us consider it essential and most of the Mooney PPP instructors won’t fly with you unless it is locked simply because we have seen many baggage doors open in flight causing damage over the years - but never seen a verified locked door open in flight. If it opens in cruise it’s going to depart the aircraft and likely do damage in flight. Just a few years ago a UK pilot had that happen and the door got wedged in the elevator making the aircraft very difficult to control. But luckily there was a large grass field directly below them that enabled them to safely make an emergency landing.
You can read about it here on Mooneyspace.
<snip>

All of the modern mooney’s have a factory mechanism to open a locked baggage door from the inside. But what you describe is a great option for similar method to unlock from inside the vintage mooney’s. Just not as secure as the factory method.

Personally i suggest you reconsider and make it a habit to lock your baggage door before every flight.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Paul. 

I am not familiar with the inside door lock release on the J and later models, but pretty sure that you cannot unlatch the pre-J models from the inside if the passenger door is locked.  Will put this on my list for the next time I'm down at the airport.  The plastic panel is already off my baggage door so I can get a good look and report back.

Changing gears.... Planning to replace both my baggage and passenger door locks so they're keyed to match.  Will probably use the Chicago cabinet locks you mention.  The tubular keys look cooler, but the Medeco locks are way more expensive, the keys are a lot more expensive to copy, and they are less comfortable in your pocket.  Locks are for keeping honest people honest and if somebody really wanted to break in, I'd rather they pick the lock than destroy the door.

And one last thought for you early Mooney owners, I recently read a recommendation somewhere to keep a pair of vice grips in the cabin in case the pin falls out of your door handle leaving just the tube sticking out.  Not an awful idea, buy I don't like anything that heavy that can fly around the cabin unless it's back in the baggage area (covered by a heavy rubber car floor mat in my plane).  Probably better to just inspect your door handle and verify the pin is tight.  Cheers!

[Pinecone]

The Medeco locks from Aircraft Security use the flat key locks, not the round keys.

How many baggage doors have actually departed the aircraft?  I keep hearing about the UK one, but only that one.  And if others departed, did any wrap around the stab like the UK one?

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, AJ88V said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Paul. 

I am not familiar with the inside door lock release on the J and later models, but pretty sure that you cannot unlatch the pre-J models from the inside if the passenger door is locked.  Will put this on my list for the next time I'm down at the airport.  The plastic panel is already off my baggage door so I can get a good look and report back.

You are correct.   Even the early J models did not have the factory inside release mechanism.    There is the common mod of adding a pull to the inside so that it can be opened from inside, but that does not work if the door is locked.    I leave mine unlocked for this reason.    Adding an interior pull makes it easy to visually check whether the door is fully latched from inside the cabin, like during pre-start checklist or something like that.

[kortopates]

44 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

The Medeco locks from Aircraft Security use the flat key locks, not the round keys.

How many baggage doors have actually departed the aircraft?  I keep hearing about the UK one, but only that one.  And if others departed, did any wrap around the stab like the UK one?

 

You don't have to get the Medeco locks from Aircraft Security, you can go down to any local Medeco locksmith and get them and have them installed as a minor alteration.

Its true that they won't prevent a really determined thief, but in the majority of cases when a thief is confronted with security devices such as these they will just walk over to the next airplane that is unsecured and leave yours alone. Seen this happen a number of times.

The most common time to see the door open is on the runway, followed by in climb with the least to occur in cruise. The faster the speed the more damage. When it happens on aborted takeoff you might get by without any damage or just breaking the hold open arm. When it happens in climb the door generally doesn't depart but the deformed door will need to be replaced. Its when it happens in cruise that the door is likely to depart. Years ago at PPP's we had a rash of 3 in rather quick succession including one departure that damaged the vertical stab that led to the policy of locking them before flight. That was a couple decades ago. We haven't had any open since and I believe the word has really spread among Mooney pilot community such that few Mooney pilots don't lock them; but there will always be those that forget too. To get a true count we'd have to ask the factory how many replacement doors they have made. 

 

[MikeOH]

JMHO, but I feel the risk of, and damage from, a baggage door opening is FAR greater than my need to crawl through the wreckage, likely injured, when I'm UWOF after a crash and exit through the baggage door!  Especially as I was taught to unlatch the CABIN door before an emergency landing so it will fly open, or at least not become jammed closed.  IOW, I'm going to live life on the edge and leave my baggage door LOCKED

Yeah, yeah, I know there are scenarios that can be construed where the door side is pinned against a tree or something...I guess that just won't be my day, then

[jetdriven]

Locking it forces you to close it, but has anybody ever had an unlocked baggage door open that was actually closed?

[hubcap]

I added the locking of the baggage door to my pre-flight checklist. I lock the door the very last thing before I climb into the cockpit.

[kortopates]

24 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Locking it forces you to close it, but has anybody ever had an unlocked baggage door open that was actually closed?

All 3 I mentioned at earlier PPP's. Talk to Bud the next time you're at a PPP, I believe the last 2 PPP incidents where with his students and he swore verifying they were shut, just not locked.  

[Marc_B]

26 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Locking it forces you to close it, but has anybody ever had an unlocked baggage door open that was actually closed?

I gather that by locking it you are removing someone else from tampering with the door to change the condition you left it.  When I did my transition into Mooney we had a discussion of locked vs unlocked.  The most important part is that it was properly closed.

Some Medeco locks have a captured key where you have to leave the key in the door and can't take it out until it's closed and locked.  I purchased my set from Aircraft Security, and it is not set up to capture the key when open.  Not sure if that's an installer adjustment vs it comes that way.

I've always religiously checked the door handle when I'm stepping up to the aircraft to get in.  Haven't felt the need to lock it, but it certainly sounds like an easy ounce of prevention moving forward.

2 minutes ago, kortopates said:

All 3 I mentioned at earlier PPP's. Talk to Bud the next time you're at a PPP, I believe the last 2 PPP incidents where with his students and he swore verifying they were shut, just not locked.  

What models were those found on?  Anything worn or minimally functional on the locks/latches?  This is the first I've heard of actually closed and latched doors coming open in flight.

[ArtVandelay]

If I thump the baggage door by the handle it will pop out a little (1/4” or so) but no more.

[MikeOH]

I don't know if it's just my baggage door but I've always felt, literally, that the 'over center' mechanism is a bit weak.  Another reason to LOCK it.

[hubcap]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

All 3 I mentioned at earlier PPP's. Talk to Bud the next time you're at a PPP, I believe the last 2 PPP incidents where with his students and he swore verifying they were shut, just not locked.  

I flew with Bud at my very first PPP event.

I have locked my baggage door 100% of the time since flying with Bud.

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

All 3 I mentioned at earlier PPP's. Talk to Bud the next time you're at a PPP, I believe the last 2 PPP incidents where with his students and he swore verifying they were shut, just not locked.  

Remind me to NOT fly with Bud.

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Locking it forces you to close it, but has anybody ever had an unlocked baggage door open that was actually closed?

Mine popped open on takeoff roll once (which I aborted), but it was because it wasn't fully latched.     With the interior pull cable for emergency exit it is now easy to check to be sure it is fully latched before engine start.    I don't know how it could come open if it was properly latched, unless there's something wrong with the latch.  A properly maintained door should not open if fully latched.    A partial latch can work open.