Dynon Autopilot for M20J/K approved!

[dominikos]

It’s been a long wait but it is approved now! The installation examples on Dynon page look really good.

https://www.dynoncertified.com/mooney-m20j-autopilot.php

[hammdo]

J and K, nice - not much help for those of us with vintage but glad to see it’s getting there

-Don

[Hank]

Hey, wow, three threads on this--General, Modern and Avionics. 

Wish I could get one, I'd redo the whole Panel with Skyview, monitor and A/P!

[toto]

31 minutes ago, Hank said:

Hey, wow, three threads on this--General, Modern and Avionics. 

Wish I could get one, I'd redo the whole Panel with Skyview, monitor and A/P!

Since this one has replies, I assume we'll converge here

Very nice to see this after many years of anticipation.  I wonder how many of us went all-Garmin in the meantime?

The trim thing is weird...

[ArtVandelay]

Since this one has replies, I assume we'll converge here
Very nice to see this after many years of anticipation.  I wonder how many of us went all-Garmin in the meantime?
The trim thing is weird...

I don’t like the way they handle the trim either.

They’re yaw damper is less than Garmins but otherwise, I added the all the HDX/AP hardware up and it’s little more than what I paid a few years ago for the G3X/GFC500 hardware.

If you think it’s a better system, then great, but I would not do it just to save money.

Nice to see another option and some competition.

[toto]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t like the way they handle the trim either.

They’re yaw damper is less than Garmins but otherwise, I added the all the HDX/AP hardware up and it’s little more than what I paid a few years ago for the G3X/GFC500 hardware.

If you think it’s a better system, then great, but I would not do it just to save money.

Nice to see another option and some competition.

I talked with Dynon and several dealers back when they announced the SkyView HDX, but the AP was a big unknown and it sounded like it would be an unknown for a while. I ended up doing G3X+G5+GFC500 and am happy, but agree that it’s good to have another entrant in the space. 

[LANCECASPER]

The labor is going to be a lot less 9n the Dynon since everything has a pre-fab harness and a dealer does not have to do the install.

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t like the way they handle the trim either.

They’re yaw damper is less than Garmins but otherwise, I added the all the HDX/AP hardware up and it’s little more than what I paid a few years ago for the G3X/GFC500 hardware.

If you think it’s a better system, then great, but I would not do it just to save money.

Nice to see another option and some competition.

There isn't a lot of difference in the hardware, but the labor is going to be a lot less on the Dynon since everything has a pre-fab harness and a dealer does not have to do the install.

[dominikos]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t like the way they handle the trim either.

They’re yaw damper is less than Garmins but otherwise, I added the all the HDX/AP hardware up and it’s little more than what I paid a few years ago for the G3X/GFC500 hardware.

If you think it’s a better system, then great, but I would not do it just to save money.

Nice to see another option and some competition.

When I made my decision two years ago, Dynon was significantly cheaper than Garmin. I don't remember the exact numbers but roughly 20-30% difference. Basically, I had to choose between Skyview HDX vs GI275s for instruments and EMS. The prices might have come down (or went up for Dynon) since then. 

[ArtVandelay]

When I made my decision two years ago, Dynon was significantly cheaper than Garmin. I don't remember the exact numbers but roughly 20-30% difference. Basically, I had to choose between Skyview HDX vs GI275s for instruments and EMS. The prices might have come down (or went up for Dynon) since then. 

Yeah, it’s about 20% on glass panels, Dynon doesn’t bundle its parts together (like STC, GPS, etc) so if you only look at advertise panel prices they look way cheaper.
Garmins retail prices have gone up as well in the last few years, but most dealers cut their prices on hardware because they make money on the installation labor.
The only way to compare is to get a quote for each. Then you have to decide if Garmin is worth the extra money.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Yeah, it’s about 20% on glass panels, Dynon doesn’t bundle its parts together (like STC, GPS, etc) so if you only look at advertise panel prices they look way cheaper.
Garmins retail prices have gone up as well in the last few years, but most dealers cut their prices on hardware because they make money on the installation labor.
The only way to compare is to get a quote for each. Then you have to decide if Garmin is worth the extra money.

Another mark in favor of Dynon--no expensive dealer install, just get an A&P. Under supervision, you can do a lot of it yourself. I would trust myself to mount everything, but someone else will need to build and attach the wiring harness.

I can see it already:  "Hey, where does the fifth white wire from the right end of the thjrd whute bundle go to again?" If only aviation used multicolored wires like the rest of the civilized world . . . . Guess that would make it too easy for "anyone" to work on.

[McMooney]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Another mark in favor of Dynon--no expensive dealer install, just get an A&P. Under supervision, you can do a lot of it yourself. I would trust myself to mount everything, but someone else will need to build and attach the wiring harness.

I can see it already:  "Hey, where does the fifth white wire from the right end of the thjrd whute bundle go to again?" If only aviation used multicolored wires like the rest of the civilized world . . . . Guess that would make it too easy for "anyone" to work on.

I"m the exact opposite, I can wire anything together but do NOT let me near any type of metal work.  

Edited October 5, 2024 by McMooney

[ArtVandelay]

I"m the exact opposite, I can wire anything together but do NOT let near any type of metal work.  

You guys should team up.

The key to wiring projects is to triple check your work, diagnosing wiring issues is difficult. Much better off taking the extra time up front to do it right.

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The key to wiring projects is to triple check your work, diagnosing wiring issues is difficult. Much better off taking the extra time up front to do it right.

That is SO much easier to do when all 100+ wires aren't all white! Stupid avionics!

[PT20J]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

Another mark in favor of Dynon--no expensive dealer install, just get an A&P. Under supervision, you can do a lot of it yourself. I would trust myself to mount everything, but someone else will need to build and attach the wiring harness.

I can see it already:  "Hey, where does the fifth white wire from the right end of the thjrd whute bundle go to again?" If only aviation used multicolored wires like the rest of the civilized world . . . . Guess that would make it too easy for "anyone" to work on.

Careful, my Garmin dealer has an avionics shop and a regular maintenance shop. The shop rate for the avionics shop is lower than for the A&Ps. 

You could not come up with enough colors to color code every wire in the airplane. That's why the factory wiring uses a wire designation system and the schematics show wire designations and the wires are labelled. Any good avionics installer should have a wire label printer.

[M20E for me]

Dynon uses color coded wires which makes it a bit easier.  Start with good schematics and get a Brothers label printer, mine will print on heat shrink tubing.  Also need a good DMC crimp tool (not cheap).

[blakeforslund]

I'll chime in I wish/hope they continue to expand on the models that are supported. There are a lot of F's, G's, E's and C's out there that would love to have it.

[ProtoFly]

On 10/6/2024 at 7:29 PM, M20E for me said:

Dynon uses color coded wires which makes it a bit easier.  Start with good schematics and get a Brothers label printer, mine will print on heat shrink tubing.  Also need a good DMC crimp tool (not cheap).

Which Brother printer do you have?

[cliffy]

You also need a GOOD wire stripper for small 22 and 24 ga wire

Dynon uses sub d plugs so crimpers for the pins are easy to find (@$40)

Make sure you get the smaller crimpers and pins for 20 ga wire and smaller. 

[231MJ]

Is anyone going to do the install with the help of an A&P?  The mechanicals look straightforward, the programing may be a bit of a challenge (for me).

 

[cliffy]

The programing is actually  easy once you realize that both pitch and roll have to be set up before any taxi checks.

It is all contained in very detailed sheets (2) One for roll and one for pitch.

Should read it through first to get familiar with the terminology 

You will also have to set up the TX ports (NEMA and 2  429s) on what ever GPS you are using so the Aero 100 can read what is being sent to it. 

429s only needed if you want GPSS for IFR approaches. 

ALL the install info comes to you on a few engineering drawings. DON'T expect detailed photos like with the Cessnas installation. 

Little bits of install info are scattered about on the engineering drawings for each servo. READ the drawings and take notes several times before you start the install.

You might have to adjust the roll servo connection to the aileron arm to get clearance so that it rotates about the ball joints The angle of connection is tight so bolt length and washers may need to be adjusted to get a good fit. (all allowed by reference on the drawings), 

The control head will be the easiest part to install. 

Buy a very good quality insertion/removal tool for the pins and do yourself a favor and buy 10 or 12 extra ones as you will screw up a few, 

Pay heed to my warning of buying GOOD wire strippers for 22 ga wires. 

The install will take you longer than you think as you have to think about every move before you do it. 

For instance the lateral placement of the roll servo although called out as a dimension at only one place on the drawing will leave you pondering just how to verify that dimension once in the wing. 

You will need a small angle drill for the roll servo bracket holes too boot. Getting the vertical placement of the roll servo  mount hole in the span- wise stringers in the wing is an exercise in frustration to do it correct. You need to drill the servo bracket holes undersize first  and then match drill the backing plate holes undersize and then install the bracket in the wing and match drill one hole in the stringer, cleco it to the stringer and then drill the other end of the backing plate holes. cleco that and then redrill all the holes to the correct size for matched hole drilling. Then you install the nut plates on the backing plates  (again redrilled to the correct size for the screw clearance). This is the kind of stuff not called out on the engineering drawings which you will have to figure out for yourself. Location of the holes in the servo mount is the critical dimension. 

This is not a quick assembly LEGGO kit but it is possible to do IF you have the determination and skill set. 

You can download all the info on the BK website and read ahead before you order. Get very familiar with the paper work before you order if you want to install it yourself or with your A&P. 

 

[231MJ]

Thanks for the encouragement, Cliffy.  

I want to confirm we're talking about the Dynon autopilot and not the Bendix King Aerocruze 100?

[cliffy]

I may have missed the Dynon A/P  as I am talking Aerocruze 100 

Reading late at night after along day has its problems with comprehension :-)

Reading English is a skill easily lost!

Sorry  But for those thinking of the BK 100 my thoughts ring true 

For so long we had nothing and now we are flooded with possibilities- so confusing  :-)

OH well back to the drawing board!

[M20E for me]

On 10/11/2024 at 4:27 AM, ProtoFly said:

Which Brother printer do you have?

I believe it the the PTE500 but 100% sure.  It's down at the hangar right now.

 

[SilentT]

So if This is 34.5K plus install costs, what do we expect it to cost in a stock J total?