Thoughts on adding 2 - G5s and Flight Stream

[finnicky7]

Recently purchased my Ranger, and looking to upgrade the panel slightly.  My Avionics shop quoted my 13k installed for 2 - G5s, GAD 29, add flight stream 210, and remove vacuum.  I fly IFR regularly on other aircraft and like the combo of G5 and analog on sides.  I was going to remove the 430 WAAS; however, adding a GNC355 didn't seem to make sense with Foreflight and flightstream. Any input appreciated. 

[sdmideas]

I think the 430w, 2x g5 + gad29 & gmu11 combo is great! Add the flight stream and foreflight and it’s a very convenient setup. I don’t fly ifr yet so I can’t add any input from that perspective. Good luck with whatever upgrade path you choose!

[Ragsf15e]

21 minutes ago, finnicky7 said:

Recently purchased my Ranger, and looking to upgrade the panel slightly.  My Avionics shop quoted my 13k installed for 2 - G5s, GAD 29, add flight stream 210, and remove vacuum.  I fly IFR regularly on other aircraft and like the combo of G5 and analog on sides.  I was going to remove the 430 WAAS; however, adding a GNC355 didn't seem to make sense with Foreflight and flightstream. Any input appreciated. 

I think it’s an excellent combo!  I just flew that exact setup ifr to Seattle and back to Spokane.  What autopilot do you have?  I don’t have the flight stream and I’m still happy with it.

[finnicky7]

4 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I think it’s an excellent combo!  I just flew that exact setup ifr to Seattle and back to Spokane.  What autopilot do you have?  I don’t have the flight stream and I’m still happy with it.

STEC 60-2 autopilot

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, finnicky7 said:

STEC 60-2 autopilot

I have an stec 30-a.  Works great!

Do you also have something feeding adsb to your 430w?  I actually like the traffic on that display.

[Ragsf15e]

One thing is to decide if you want the extra box to display temp/winds/TAS on the G5s.  I don’t have it because I didn’t want to add an additional temp probe- it will need its own.

[EricJ]

That's a great setup, and later if you want to update the 430 an Avidyne 440 will slide into that rack, and is an excellent unit.   That gives a nice option with very low installation cost.    I have 2 G5s with an Avidyne 540 and love it.

[bcg]

If you replace the 430 with the GNC, you won't need the Flightstream, it'll connect to FF over Bluetooth.

Otherwise, I think you'll like it. I'd go ahead and put a GAD13 in as well, it's nice having OAT, winds and TAS on the G5.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Vance Harral]

I like the dual G5s and think they're an economical solution.  Older tech than GI-275s, but superior in some ways (I like the square display and larger physical screen size, albeit with fewer pixels).

Be aware that if you don't cut a whole new panel, the rotating knob on the G5 HSI will wind up very close to your yoke shaft, which is an annoyance I didn't understand until after ours were installed.  It'll be slightly closer to the yoke shaft than the adjustment knob on your current DG, and you'll use it in flight a lot more often to set a heading bug.  I don't think we would have done anything differently if I'd known about this in advance, but I think about it almost every time I work with it.  You either use your left hand - a little awkward if you're right handed - or you have to scrunch your right hand down along the yoke shaft to turn the knob.  @Ragsf15e has solved this problem with a panel that mounts the G5s to the right of the yoke shaft.  Another solution is to go with GI-275s which have their control knob on the left side rather than the right; but that's significantly more money and a physically smaller screen in exchange for some nicer features and capabilities.

[finnicky7]

25 minutes ago, Vance Harral said:

I like the dual G5s and think they're an economical solution.  Older tech than GI-275s, but superior in some ways (I like the square display and larger physical screen size, albeit with fewer pixels).

Be aware that if you don't cut a whole new panel, the rotating knob on the G5 HSI will wind up very close to your yoke shaft, which is an annoyance I didn't understand until after ours were installed.  It'll be slightly closer to the yoke shaft than the adjustment knob on your current DG, and you'll use it in flight a lot more often to set a heading bug.  I don't think we would have done anything differently if I'd known about this in advance, but I think about it almost every time I work with it.  You either use your left hand - a little awkward if you're right handed - or you have to scrunch your right hand down along the yoke shaft to turn the knob.  @Ragsf15e has solved this problem with a panel that mounts the G5s to the right of the yoke shaft.  Another solution is to go with GI-275s which have their control knob on the left side rather than the right; but that's significantly more money and a physically smaller screen in exchange for some nicer features and capabilities.

I've trained a few folks in their aircraft with GI275, I didn't love them.   

[hammdo]

I have G5s with GNC 355. I’d do the G5s and upgrade to the slide in Avidine with yours..

 

[Vance Harral]

28 minutes ago, finnicky7 said:

I've trained a few folks in their aircraft with GI275, I didn't love them. 

I have very little - but not zero - time behind a GI275 set up as an HSI.  It's a beautiful display, has moving map features, etc.  I didn't have any trouble with the menu logic, though I'm a nerd and worry slightly that less nerdy pilots may get the thing scrolled onto a data-dense page they have trouble recovering from in IMC.  To me, the primary drawback vs. the G5 is the round vs. square format.  I appreciate that the round format is one of the primary selling points of the 275, but the square-format G5 has corners into which additional information can be packed without giving up screen real estate traditionally dedicated to the HSI itself.  As the pics below show, the round format requires things like distance/ETE/HDG/CRS to sit on top of compass numbers, the course pointer, etc.  Garmin did a perfectly reasonable job of this, but there's just no getting around the fact that some of the displayed data covers up stuff that doesn't have to be covered in a square format.

That said, everything's a trade-off.  If you'd never seen a square-format HSI you wouldn't care about the "packing" of information.  And the higher display resolution of the 275 is going to be favored vs. the lower-res but physically larger G5, by lots of pilots with good near-distance vision.  I'm pretty sure no one has installed a 275, hated it, and gone back to a G5.  They're both great instruments.

I'd be curious to know if Garmin relocated the control knob from lower right to lower left because there are so many airplanes with the yoke shaft close to the lower right corner of the DG/HSI.

[finnicky7]

Great input everyone!   What an awesome forum, I was a long time member on a car forum for 2 decades and you guys are showing your knowledge and love here for Mooneys. 

[bcg]

4 hours ago, hammdo said:

I have G5s with GNC 355. I’d do the G5s and upgrade to the slide in Avidine with yours..

 

I agree, Avidyne would be a good option as well.  It's got a fantastic app for the iPad that basically doubles the screen.  I don't know if it talks to FF though, I've only flown behind one a couple of times.  I really like them.

[pirate]

IFD and ForFlight work very well together. 

[Bob E]

My two cents' worth:   Your panel is already nicely-equipped.  If it's functionality you're interested in, there's no need to ditch the 430.  It's Garmin canbus compatible so it will interface nicely with the FlightStream as well as the G5's and will grab ADS-B data from the transponder so you'll get the ADS-B display on your iPads.  I love the FlightStream 210.  You can enter flight plans or route changes on your iPad and they will automatically update the 430 as well as the copilot iPad if you have one.  (As a practical matter you need to select procedures in the 430 and let them update the iPads rather than the reverse.)  I have an M20C as well, and I prefer to have the G5's horizontal rather than vertical.  Easier to scan, and it's nice having the HSI and glide path on the right-hand G5 right next to the 430 map.  Horizontal placement also makes it MUCH easier to adjust the altitude and heading bugs, and the brightness if need be.  The magnetometer for the G5's needs to be at the end of one wing at least a couple of feet from the position light (if it's an LED) to avoid interference. 

Here's a photo of my panel.  It's a "poor man's version of glass" but it's very efficient, easy to scan, and intuitive. I use iPad minis not only because of the size, but because they are brighter.  I take them out of the case in hot weather so they don't overheat.  The empty space on the right is for a GFC-500 when I can afford it someday.   I actually have a 400W (the 430 without the NAV/COM radios) since I already had the two KX-155's and I like not having a single point of failure.

[wolfbyte]

I have a more generic, broad question, because the one quote I received from an avionics place (Gulf Coast) was absurd - they were charging $40k in labor alone, and for a very modest update too.

Would love to get some glass components, but would appreciate some recommendations of places that do a good job and don't gouge. Basically just a pair of G5's and an autopilot system is more than enough; already happy with my center stack of WAAS GPS and comms for the most part

[finnicky7]

11 minutes ago, wolfbyte said:

I have a more generic, broad question, because the one quote I received from an avionics place (Gulf Coast) was absurd - they were charging $40k in labor alone, and for a very modest update too.

Would love to get some glass components, but would appreciate some recommendations of places that do a good job and don't gouge. Basically just a pair of G5's and an autopilot system is more than enough; already happy with my center stack of WAAS GPS and comms for the most part

Shop around. I had several quotes run before I bought this plane so I had a general idea. However, if you need an autopilot installed in addition to what I’m doing it’s probably 15k for that alone. 

[Bryan G]

Flightstream is my favorite with the 430w, my phone and iPad seamlessly connect back and forth. It’s really nice IFR when you’re cleared to a waypoint, adjust on your iPad and it loads up to the panel. And when you edit your route in the 430 (direct to, etc) it sends the update to your linked devices. 
 

-275 stack isn’t much more expensive, worth it for the look and performance. I highly recommend a discrete switch for both reversionary and a physical toggle  switch for GPSS/HDG modes of the autopilot!

[Bryan G]

[McMooney]

2x g5s would really be nice,   flightstream is nice.

i think i'm misunderstanding, why would you ever remove the 430w ???? 

if you add a gnc355, you won't need the flightstream

[finnicky7]

On 10/13/2024 at 8:21 PM, McMooney said:

2x g5s would really be nice,   flightstream is nice.

i think i'm misunderstanding, why would you ever remove the 430w ???? 

if you add a gnc355, you won't need the flightstream

430 stays!  I'm on fence on the 275s, I really like G5s but that panel above is awesome!   Either way N1972W is getting new toys.   Put some hours on her last two weeks and found a few STEC 60-2 issues to get addressed too.    Attaching a few pics from last weeks Hurricane supply run to Mountain Air (6A4) Airport, NC.  315lbs of supplies loaded!

 

[Jim Peace]

if you are doing G5's dont forget to flush!!

[JKL]

I just upgraded the panel on my 1965 “E”. Don’t have flightstream, so can’t comment on that. I have the stacked G5’s, 355 and Aera 760. Very happy so far. Still figuring how to use it all.

[Z W]

You'll get more utility out of a GNC355 than the Flightstream.  It will do the Bluetooth connection and flight plan transfers and also add the ability to load advisory visual approaches with a glideslope to any runway in the country, and also give you an additional comm radio.  More money though.

I cannot get our Flightstream to update databases via Garmin Pilot like it's supposed to.  Since we had a 355, the Flightstream was a pointless upgrade.  Some others appear to have the same problem. Probably phone-related. I still just pack databases in and out on a SD card.