I guess I have 13 months to live (just kidding)

[DonMuncy]

I just got notice from Seattle Avionics that they are changing their policy regarding my "lifetime subscription" to FlyQ . (In case you are unaware, it is an EFB similar to Foreflight) They are making a bunch of updates and improvements to their product. It is now going to be EFB 7.0. I can upgrade to their new program and they will give me one month free, and then a "one time" 25% discount on a year subscription. Or if I don't want to upgrade, they will give me a year of the "6.9.1", at which time, it will be "sunset". I take that to mean that after a year, I get nothing.

So much for Lifetime. 

And this comes right after (a month or two ago) they notified me of an upgrade to 6.9.1. My old IPad mini was not compatible with this latest upgrade, so I just bought a new IPad mini. I had never used my old IPad for anything but flying, and planned on using the new one the same way.

It would be a little easier to stomach if they apologized for their inability to continue to honor their commitment because of business economic realities, but there was not a hint of an apology.

I think I will have to take another look to see about the differences between the products and prices of FlyQ and Foreflight, and lean toward Foreflight, because they haven't screwed me over (at least not yet).

 

 

[EricJ]

There are other EFBs available for iOS, including iFly EFB, which I just started using myself and like so far.   My hangar neighbor uses Garmin Pilot and likes it.  There are some others as well, so it might be worth looking around at some things other than just FF.

[N201MKTurbo]

Someone once told me you are an attorney. You would think there is something you could sue them for. 

[PT20J]

When I get offered a lifetime subscription, I always ask, “Who’s life?” I guess if they EOL (end of life) a product, that answers it. I’d tell them I want a death certificate for my files. 

[NotarPilot]

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Someone once told me you are an attorney. You would think there is something you could sue them for. 

The same thought crossed my mind. However, while I think this is a BS move on their part (I have a FlyQ EFB lifetime subscription myself), I wouldn’t necessarily suggest litigation be the first and only course of action. While I think this is a bad business move that leaves a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths, I wouldn’t want to make it that a lawsuit could possibly bankrupt a company and maybe cause them to go out of business, thereby decreasing the amount of competition out there. 
I rarely used FlyQ EFB because it used to be glitchy and I just preferred WingXpro more. I think I got the lifetime subscription back  in 2016 paying $400 or $500 for it. I guess it wasn’t a true “lifetime” subscription but with the little I used it I probably won’t miss that app too much. It’s still a BS move on Seattle’s part. 

[MoonFlyer68]

I just checked my receipt they emailed to me back when I made my purchase.  It has an expiration date of 2102, so I should be good for quite a while you would think. Unless they have perfected time travel and we jumped forward nearly 80 years.  Obviously I am upset.  Lifetime means just that, LIFETIME.

Here is my bigger question however and the one that I did not see an answer for.  I purchased the bundle with the FlyQ EFB as well as lifetime chart downloads for Dynon avionics.  Is this change only affecting the EFB side or will I also be loosing the chart downloads as well?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[LANCECASPER]

Seattle Avionics was purchased a few years ago and that was my first thought - what about all of those people who bought lifetime subscriptions? I had one to the data for my Aspens at the time.

When a company is sold, their liabilities and their assets go with it. Providing data and updates that was promised should have been of the package they bought. I'm not affected by this but it upsets me when I hear about a company doing this.

I would respond to them with how you feel about it and I hope whoever is going to Oshkosh that's affected by this stops by their booth to express their dissatisfaction. A crowd in person at their booth sends a stronger message than anything else, short of a class action lawsuit. In fact I hope the only thing they remember when look back at Oshkosh 2024 is how upset their customer base was, and how it affected all of the other people who stopped by to look at their products.

[exM20K]

“Lifetime Sumscription” and “Lifetime Memberships” endure for the lifetime of the company, not of the buyer. Changes in ownership or control don’t always (often?) bring improvements for customers, vendors, or employees, but rather benefit with certainty only the sellers. Releasing partial or complete control to an investor means that there is now someone in the room with a loud voice who is not necessarily aligned with the organization’s vision,  history or values.  Sometimes, it all works out to the better or at least neutral. Boeing’s acquisition of ForeFlight has been mostly a neutral event from my perspective, something I consider a minor miracle. 
-dan

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

When a company is sold, their liabilities and their assets go with it. Providing data and updates that was promised should have been of the package they bought. I'm not affected by this but it upsets me when I hear about a company doing this.

Many (most?) transactions of this nature are done as asset sales rather than stock sales for just this reason. The liabilities don’t convey in an asset sale. Some will decide the customer goodwill and company reputation warrant performing on the previous company’s promises.  Some won’t.
-dan

[LANCECASPER]

They could have done a much better job of handling it - the lifetime subscription mentioned that in the future they could pass on come future costs. Why not just assess a small fee to the subscription holders to maintain goodwill, and for a much reduced cost offer them an upgrade to the new app to generate some cash. To “sunset” shows a bad intent.

[exM20K]

11 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

They could have done a much better job of handling it - the lifetime subscription mentioned that in the future they could pass on come future costs. Why not just assess a small fee to the subscription holders to maintain goodwill, and for a much reduced cost offer them an upgrade to the new app to generate some cash. To “sunset” shows a bad intent.

Agree, and when Sirius/XM finally decommissions the old XM satellites, those of us who own legacy GLD69A datalink units will see what the two companies are made of with respect to subsidizing a transition to the newer Sirius units.  
-dan

[NotarPilot]

25 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

They could have done a much better job of handling it - the lifetime subscription mentioned that in the future they could pass on come future costs. Why not just assess a small fee to the subscription holders to maintain goodwill, and for a much reduced cost offer them an upgrade to the new app to generate some cash. To “sunset” shows a bad intent.

I agree with you. I, for one, will not be a new FlyQ EFB subscriber after being booted from my lifetime subscription like this. Unfortunately, I use SA for my Dynon databases so I can’t divest myself from them completely. I wonder how many customers they will lose by doing this. And guess how many of those lost customers will recommend FlyQ to other pilots. Probably close to ZERO. 

[midlifeflyer]

6 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

I agree with you. I, for one, will not be a new FlyQ EFB subscriber after being booted from my lifetime subscription like this. Unfortunately, I use SA for my Dynon databases so I can’t divest myself from them completely. I wonder how many customers they will lose by doing this. And guess how many of those lost customers will recommend FlyQ to other pilots. Probably close to ZERO. 

I don't know what's going to happen but according to an acquaintance, there is a ) FlyQ users group on Facebook with a lot of angry comments. 

Me, I don't have a lifetime subscription but have had a CFI-discounted subscription for several years so I would be able to help a trainee of uses it.  I have no idea if my discount is affected, but I decided to drop it at the next renewal. I doubt  I'll need it.

[McMooney]

come to the darkside, get Garmin Pilot 8)

[NotarPilot]

WingXpro offers a free subscription for CFIs. I’ve been very happy with it and it’s a very stable platform. Very easy to use as well.

[IvanP]

18 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I just got notice from Seattle Avionics that they are changing their policy regarding my "lifetime subscription" to FlyQ . (In case you are unaware, it is an EFB similar to Foreflight) They are making a bunch of updates and improvements to their product. It is now going to be EFB 7.0. I can upgrade to their new program and they will give me one month free, and then a "one time" 25% discount on a year subscription. Or if I don't want to upgrade, they will give me a year of the "6.9.1", at which time, it will be "sunset". I take that to mean that after a year, I get nothing.

So much for Lifetime. 

And this comes right after (a month or two ago) they notified me of an upgrade to 6.9.1. My old IPad mini was not compatible with this latest upgrade, so I just bought a new IPad mini. I had never used my old IPad for anything but flying, and planned on using the new one the same way.

It would be a little easier to stomach if they apologized for their inability to continue to honor their commitment because of business economic realities, but there was not a hint of an apology.

I think I will have to take another look to see about the differences between the products and prices of FlyQ and Foreflight, and lean toward Foreflight, because they haven't screwed me over (at least not yet).

 

 

I bought a "lifetime subscription" for charts and data from Anywhere Map (Control Vision Corp) years back as part of a bundle (tablet and subscription). I thing that I got about 10 years of updates out of the deal before the company went belly up. I really liked the software and user interface and the flight planning features. Any time someone offers "lifetime subscription", one should take such claim with a grain of salt. 

Although the "lifetime" was admittedly shorter than what I would have liked, I have to give the company credit for making a good faith effort to continue the service after they exited the business of selling hardware with data update bundles. I do not recall ever receiving any formal notice the the service will no longer continue, though. One day, the updates would just stop and e-mails or calls went unanswered. It was a good run, though. I think that I paid around $1,800 for the tablet and subscription bundle. Amortized over 10+ years, it was lot cheaper than Garmin subscriptions and, in my opinion, a lot better user interface than G has. Switched to Garmin Aera 760 after that. Almost the same price but no "lifetime" subscription. Nevertheless, I think that the Aera is a decent product with interface that closely matches that of the GTN 750 installed in my current plane.   

[DonMuncy]

OK guys. How many EFBs are out there; how do they compare to Foreflight or FlyQ; what are the annual costs; do they offer a lifetime subscription; and if you use it, do you like it.

[Hank]

Don, I enjoy Avare, but it's Android only, no fruity version available. And it's free, complete with whatever charts, sectionals, plates, etc., that you could ever wish for. Geolocated and everything, from the sectional to approach plate to the airport diagram that it switches to automatically when landing.

P.S.--Samsung tablets with GPS are often found on sale for the price of a 1-year ForeFlight subscription . . . .

[LANCECASPER]

On my iPad and iPhone I use Foreflight but I have FltPlanGO as a free backup app - no charge for charts, plates, etc.

[dkkim73]

13 hours ago, exM20K said:

Agree, and when Sirius/XM finally decommissions the old XM satellites, those of us who own legacy GLD69A datalink units will see what the two companies are made of with respect to subsidizing a transition to the newer Sirius units.  
-dan

It took me a while to figure out that my plane only has one of those radios, XM I believe... Is this decommissioning coming soon? 

I flew home in an area with widespread convection and I appreciated having the satellite info vs. just FIS-B.

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

OK guys. How many EFBs are out there; how do they compare to Foreflight or FlyQ; what are the annual costs; do they offer a lifetime subscription; and if you use it, do you like it.

Garmin pilot is pretty much the equivalent of ForeFlight,  runs on android and apple.  Android version lags just a bit.    the differences are really in things i never bother to use.

slightly cheaper than foreflight, slightly, tend to get free usage whenever you buy something garmin.   

 

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

Beechtalk members have been writing to Seattle Avionics regarding this

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=230976

[Pinecone]

Join Civil Air Patrol and start flying.  You get the Military version of Fore Flight free.  It is a step up from Performance Plus.

[Paul Thomas]

20 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

OK guys. How many EFBs are out there; how do they compare to Foreflight or FlyQ; what are the annual costs; do they offer a lifetime subscription; and if you use it, do you like it.

I have a subscription to Foreflight and that's what I use. I have FltPlanGO as a backup as it's free. FltPlanGO is a very good and to be candid, I probably should just switch to it but I like the convenience of using the data/documents I've uploaded to Foreflight.

[NotarPilot]

3 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

I have a subscription to Foreflight and that's what I use. I have FltPlanGO as a backup as it's free. FltPlanGO is a very good and to be candid, I probably should just switch to it but I like the convenience of using the data/documents I've uploaded to Foreflight.

I use FltPlan Go to file all of my IFR flights. Within 5 to 15 minutes I get an email that my flight plan has been filed. I then use WingX to navigate. FltPlan Go is a decent back up.