Mooney upgrade

[Danb]

Martin to me it’s an easy decision except for the Bravo having 1700 on the engine so I’d add $120,000 to the $300,000 cost the Bravo then being a $400,000+ aircraft. I like the Lycoming power plant much more than the continental. I sold my 2005 Bravo GX last year for $335,000 through Jimmy. Which is another plus since Jimmy is an honest straight shooter. This Bravo is unique in that is almost an Acclaim having the GFC 700 flight management system. During my 15+ years of owning the Bravo I had no mechanical issues. Down side it’s inefficient as Ken mentioned I flew mine at about 18 GPH TITs under 1600 with great speeds not much slower than my Acclaim. Also my Bravo did ok LOP  but not nearly as good as the Acclaim. If you could get it for $275 then prepare for the new engine jump on it. Useful load isn’t great I consider it a two person plane. The biggest thing there all Mooneys so no wrong answers. Good luck

 

D

 

[slowflyin]

21 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

A New Encore Continental TSIO-360-SB at only $100k seems like a bargain compared to a new Bravo Lycoming TIO-540-AF1B at $175K (75% more).

It seems odd that the Rebuilt Encore Continental is so high at $88K.

All these prices are after providing a usable Core.  Without a Core, the New Lycoming for the Bravo costs $216K !

More and more, when you buy a used GA plane you are paying for Avionics and the Engine/Prop and the rest of the plane is thrown in for free....

 

Fist let me say, all these prices our insane!  That being said, comparing rebuilt to rebuilt, or OH to OH, the delta isn't as significant in airplane dollars.  

[Fritz1]

Before I bought the Bravo 7 years ago I spoke to owners, lots of shops and to Jimmy Garrison, there are no perfect airplanes and I was seriously considering an Encore. All the shops that I spoke to stated that the Lycoming was more reliable and easier to work on, more adapted to take the heat from turbocharging. Jimmy Garrison owned a Bravo himself at the time. I bought the Bravo with a 200h factory reman, put 650h on it and never had to cancel a flight due to mechanical issues but once when the boost pump gracefully died in front of my own hangar this summer with about 2000h on the unit. At about 80% power the FIKI Bravo will do 185KT TAS in the high teens at about 18.5 gph 100 dF ROP, 2400/29", 1580 TIT and 380 max CHT with all baffles sealed and fine wire plugs. I think this is about as good as it gets for a piston single. You can put an Acclaim propeller on the Bravo, speed goes up by maybe a knot, climb increases significantly by about 100 ft/min. The only thing that is missing is the Acclaim cowl, nothing is perfect. The Bravo is nose heavy, mine has 6lbs of lead in the tail, luggage always goes as far back as possible, you will never reach the max rear cg even for icing conditions, without luggage and by myself the Bravo lands with max up trim with full flaps. The Bravo engine has thermal reserves. My airplane was bought new by Scott Heck from Bozeman MT and he traveled to Seattle across the cascades frequently. He said more than once he had to firewall the Lycoming and pray to the Lord to climb out of the icing in the high teens, engine took the beating and Scott still lives in Bozeman MT.

[slowflyin]

13 minutes ago, Fritz1 said:

Before I bought the Bravo 7 years ago I spoke to owners, lots of shops and to Jimmy Garrison, there are no perfect airplanes and I was seriously considering an Encore. All the shops that I spoke to stated that the Lycoming was more reliable and easier to work on, more adapted to take the heat from turbocharging. Jimmy Garrison owned a Bravo himself at the time. I bought the Bravo with a 200h factory reman, put 650h on it and never had to cancel a flight due to mechanical issues but once when the boost pump gracefully died in front of my own hangar this summer with about 2000h on the unit. At about 80% power the FIKI Bravo will do 185KT TAS in the high teens at about 18.5 gph 100 dF ROP, 2400/29", 1580 TIT and 380 max CHT with all baffles sealed and fine wire plugs. I think this is about as good as it gets for a piston single. You can put an Acclaim propeller on the Bravo, speed goes up by maybe a knot, climb increases significantly by about 100 ft/min. The only thing that is missing is the Acclaim cowl, nothing is perfect. The Bravo is nose heavy, mine has 6lbs of lead in the tail, luggage always goes as far back as possible, you will never reach the max rear cg even for icing conditions, without luggage and by myself the Bravo lands with max up trim with full flaps. The Bravo engine has thermal reserves. My airplane was bought new by Scott Heck from Bozeman MT and he traveled to Seattle across the cascades frequently. He said more than once he had to firewall the Lycoming and pray to the Lord to climb out of the icing in the high teens, engine took the beating and Scott still lives in Bozeman MT.

Same  Went to Jimmy to look at a 252 and left with a Bravo!

[snowman]

Someone can help to find the way to ôst an AD '' plane for sale'' on this site

 

martin

[1980Mooney]

57 minutes ago, snowman said:

Someone can help to find the way to ôst an AD '' plane for sale'' on this site

 

martin

First you need to upgrade your membership:

Then go to the Classifieds Forum

https://mooneyspace.com/forum/10-aircraft-classifieds/

"Aircraft Classifieds

Use this forum to post your Mooney aircraft for sale. Other aircraft types will not be permitted here. Only supporters (those that have donated $10 or more in the past year) can create new topics in this forum. "

https://mooneyspace.com/forum/10-aircraft-classifieds/

 

[snowman]

On 7/16/2024 at 9:54 AM, M20F said:

 
The turbo mafia here  will deny this but a turbo makes it pretty easy to toast your engine if you are not paying attention and has additional annual and incidental expenses.  For example lose a valve you are doing the cylinder and the turbo. 
 

 

probably more  for the turbo boost butt the turbo regulated it's about me almost impossible to overboost (231 versus 252).

      Mike explain  this  thing in the video on turbocompressed motor, and for sure if lose valve in flight the turbo overhall don't change lot much (5000$ for the turbo) on the reparation price for an overhauld .   

  Martin 

 

P.S. he also talk about the hambfisted pilot definition in the commentary ...

[Pinecone]

A ham handed pilot can toast an NA engine.
 

FYI my Encore converted 252 will do 170 - 175 on 10.1 GPH.  POH says you can push up the power to get it to 185.  UL is 1060, so full fuel (with Monroy tanks) plus two people and baggage, and not so nose heavy

[M20F]

21 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

A ham handed pilot can toast an NA engine.
 

Nice strawman.  Yes all things are possible.  It is significantly easier to toast an inducted engine.

[dkkim73]

Doesn't the toasting risk depend significantly on the design? 

Eg a turbo normalized design like the Acclaim would seem to offer the same boost risk as flying at sea level. Well it's got a tiny bit of boost over that, but not much. 

I'm not saying it's not more complex, with additional failure modes, but the implication seems to be excessive ICPs and this CHTs, bad mixture, etc. 

I actually think it's easier to operate, too. Since you control MAP, doesn't take quite as much mixture vigilance. 

[Will.iam]

On 7/20/2025 at 1:39 PM, dkkim73 said:

Doesn't the toasting risk depend significantly on the design? 

Eg a turbo normalized design like the Acclaim would seem to offer the same boost risk as flying at sea level. Well it's got a tiny bit of boost over that, but not much. 

I'm not saying it's not more complex, with additional failure modes, but the implication seems to be excessive ICPs and this CHTs, bad mixture, etc. 

I actually think it's easier to operate, too. Since you control MAP, doesn't take quite as much mixture vigilance. 

Even with a normalized boost, problem is air is thinner the higher you go up so does not convectively cool as good as when you are down low where the air is thinner. Normally aspirated engine not a problem because power is also reduced. But with an engine that can produce 100% power in thinner air you are going to have heat dissipation issues. . 

[exM20K]

16 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Even with a normalized boost, problem is air is thinner the higher you go up so does not convectively cool as good as when you are down low where the air is thinner. Normally aspirated engine not a problem because power is also reduced. But with an engine that can produce 100% power in thinner air you are going to have heat dissipation issues. . 

The decreasing temps with altitude do help mitigate the lower mass of air.  This is a pretty typical unrestricted climb for me to 16,000.  I don't know what happens in the flight levels because I really don't fly there.

-dan

[Fly Boomer]

14 minutes ago, exM20K said:

The decreasing temps with altitude do help mitigate the lower mass of air.  This is a pretty typical unrestricted climb for me to 16,000.  I don't know what happens in the flight levels because I really don't fly there.

Any idea what causes the long-wave oscillations in CHT6?

[MikeOH]

3 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Any idea what causes the long-wave oscillations in CHT6?

Good observation!

I wonder if there is correlation with EGT6?  @exM20K

[exM20K]

32 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Any idea what causes the long-wave oscillations in CHT6?

Some electrical interference.  I quit chasing it a long time ago.

[MikeOH]

28 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Some electrical interference.  I quit chasing it a long time ago.

Hmm, ok, but the 1 minute interval seems pretty odd for 'electrical interference'

[exM20K]

44 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Hmm, ok, but the 1 minute interval seems pretty odd for 'electrical interference'

I’m using that term loosely. It’s not always cylinder six, it’s not always that period.  But there’s really no mechanism that would have true cylinder head temperatures oscillating like that in isolation. Luse baffle seals would be much more of an erratic binary. Clogged injectors would show up in the EGT, leaky upper deck lines to an injector would likewise be visible in the EGT.

The system has exhibited this behavior on different cylinders for hundreds and hundreds of hours and through at at least one top overhaul, so I’m willing to chalk it up to some sensor or display anomaly and consume my worry budget elsewhere. I do think that a lot of these Garmin/G 1000 sensors would benefit from having some form of snubber in line.
 

-dan