LED Replacement Lighting

[Electro]

Is it legal to freely replace general interior and panel lighting with LED bulbs without documentation? If not, what are the requirements? I am mostly concerned with the trim, flaps and gear indicators.

[MisfitSELF]

Hmm.  Good question.  I have a "friend" who's replaced the cabin overhead lights with the little led bulbs.  They work great except now there isn't much difference in illumination between "dim" and "bright".  The big advantage is that it takes longer to run down the battery when they are accidentally turned on by a passenger and it's not notice by my "friend" for a couple of days.  After the fact, that "friend" wishes he would have also tried the red bulbs -- or ideally if the system could somehow be modified to give red light in "dim" and white light on "bright" -- but that's a tangent, sorry.

That same "friend" would love to put LED bulbs in for those same indicator lights as the OP mentioned.

[Electro]

Thanks for the response. I hadn't considered that available LEDs may not be dimmable.

[DCarlton]

4 hours ago, MisfitSELF said:

Hmm.  Good question.  I have a "friend" who's replaced the cabin overhead lights with the little led bulbs.  They work great except now there isn't much difference in illumination between "dim" and "bright".  The big advantage is that it takes longer to run down the battery when they are accidentally turned on by a passenger and it's not notice by my "friend" for a couple of days.  After the fact, that "friend" wishes he would have also tried the red bulbs -- or ideally if the system could somehow be modified to give red light in "dim" and white light on "bright" -- but that's a tangent, sorry.

That same "friend" would love to put LED bulbs in for those same indicator lights as the OP mentioned.

Does your friend have a P/N handy for the bulbs?  Direct fit?  If I use my overhead lighting, it's always bright; anything dimmer is too dim now.  

[MisfitSELF]

2 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Does your friend have a P/N handy for the bulbs?  Direct fit?  If I use my overhead lighting, it's always bright; anything dimmer is too dim now.  

 

These have been working great for my "friend".  And it's a direct fit in my "friend's" 1984 M20J.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WF5RCKR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by MisfitSELF

[PeteMc]

3 hours ago, MisfitSELF said:

And it's a direct fit in my "friend's" 1984 M20J

Are they dimmable?  I may have missed it, but didn't see "dimmable" anywhere just now when I looked.

 

[Boilermonkey]

There have been many threads about LEDs, owner maintenance, etc.  My take away was....go ahead.

We have replaced most lights with LED, however, not all LEDs are built the same way.  For instance many can interfere with your radios.  Those purchased from avionics companies or distributors are usually ok, even if they are not PMA/TSO.  Buying on Amazon is a bit of trial and error.  For example I tried to replace our position lights on the trailing edge of our wing tip on the M20M with an LED recommended on MooneySpace from Amazon.  It created static on the radios at various frequencies and others were fine.  I replaced with Halogens and the static went away.   For 20W each, replacement every 5-10 years, and easy access to change, it wasn't worth it.   For $15 and 10 minutes of time it was worth a shot.

[M20F]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:05 PM, MisfitSELF said:

The big advantage is that it takes longer to run down the battery when they are accidentally turned on by a passenger and it's not notice by my "friend" for a couple of days. 
 

Biggest advantage is you won’t burn your hand when you touch them.  

[MisfitSELF]

On 9/9/2023 at 12:02 AM, PeteMc said:

Are they dimmable?  I may have missed it, but didn't see "dimmable" anywhere just now when I looked.

 

As far as I know, no.  I'm not sure how the Mooney's circuit works for the overhead lights...is it 6V on "dim" and 12V on "bright"?  All I know is there is now no difference between dim and bright with the LED I had installed.  Regardless, the light is sufficiently bright without being stupid bright so I'm happy.  If I were being picky, I would have been nice if the "DIM" was really dim to not impact night vision.

[PT20J]

8 minutes ago, MisfitSELF said:

As far as I know, no.  I'm not sure how the Mooney's circuit works for the overhead lights...is it 6V on "dim" and 12V on "bright"?  All I know is there is now no difference between dim and bright with the LED I had installed.  Regardless, the light is sufficiently bright without being stupid bright so I'm happy.  If I were being picky, I would have been nice if the "DIM" was really dim to not impact night vision.

BRT connects the bulbs to bus voltage; DIM inserts a series dropping resistor. Thus, the voltage at the bulb in the DIM position will be inversely proportional to the current drawn. As LED bulbs draw substantially less current than the original incandescent bulbs, I wouldn't expect the DIM position to have much effect even if the LEDs are dimmable. 

[Nippernaper]

BRT connects the bulbs to bus voltage; DIM inserts a series dropping resistor. Thus, the voltage at the bulb in the DIM position will be inversely proportional to the current drawn. As LED bulbs draw substantially less current than the original incandescent bulbs, I wouldn't expect the DIM position to have much effect even if the LEDs are dimmable. 

I know of someone who installed a dimmable LED, and had this exact result (no dimming)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hank]

Prevailing wisdom is that you need to leave an incandescent bulb somewhere in the same circuit. So goes my memory from several years back . . . .

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, MisfitSELF said:

As far as I know, no.  I'm not sure how the Mooney's circuit works for the overhead lights...is it 6V on "dim" and 12V on "bright"?  All I know is there is now no difference between dim and bright with the LED I had installed.  Regardless, the light is sufficiently bright without being stupid bright so I'm happy.  If I were being picky, I would have been nice if the "DIM" was really dim to not impact night vision.

It may not have been a "dimmable" LED, so it's brightness curve just goes flat after about 6V or whatever it may be.    

[AdamJD]

I too have a "friend" who replaced all interior lights, except panel post lights, with LEDs.  This was in a '67F.  He was tired of the gear lights and torpedo lights being hot as hell.  He replaced the torpedo lights with dimmables and they do dim, although not as much as the incandescent lights.  He consulted with experts who said you don't need a logbook entry for lightbulb replacements - even to LED.  No modification was made to the lighting system.  He loves the fact that he can now twist the gear indicator lights at night to slim the shutter without risking 3rd degree burns.

Here are the lights he used:

Gear indicator lights - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1UPFF6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Torpedos and Overhead are from https://www.superbrightleds.com/

Items	Qty	Price
67 LED Bulb - 12 LED Tower - Cool White - 2 Pack SKU: 67-CW12-G-2PK	1	$13.90
67 LED Light Bulb - (12) SMD LED Tower - BA15S Base - Cool White
2 x 67 LED Light Bulb - (12) SMD LED Tower - BA15S Base - Cool White $0.00
67 LED Light Bulb - (12) SMD LED Tower - BA15S Base SKU: 67-NW12-G Color Options Natural 4000K Pack Single

 

[Electro]

2 hours ago, AdamJD said:

I too have a "friend" who replaced all interior lights, except panel post lights, with LEDs.  This was in a '67F.  He was tired of the gear lights and torpedo lights being hot as hell.  He replaced the torpedo lights with dimmables and they do dim, although not as much as the incandescent lights.  He consulted with experts who said you don't need a logbook entry for lightbulb replacements - even to LED.  No modification was made to the lighting system.  He loves the fact that he can now twist the gear indicator lights at night to slim the shutter without risking 3rd degree burns.

Here are the lights he used:

Gear indicator lights - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1UPFF6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Torpedos and Overhead are from https://www.superbrightleds.com/

Items	Qty	Price
67 LED Bulb - 12 LED Tower - Cool White - 2 Pack SKU: 67-CW12-G-2PK	1	$13.90
67 LED Light Bulb - (12) SMD LED Tower - BA15S Base - Cool White
2 x 67 LED Light Bulb - (12) SMD LED Tower - BA15S Base - Cool White $0.00
67 LED Light Bulb - (12) SMD LED Tower - BA15S Base SKU: 67-NW12-G Color Options Natural 4000K Pack Single

 

Thanks for the info, AdamJD. It appears that Aero-Lites has a 28V version as well. I'll order a few.

Tom

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, AdamJD said:

He loves the fact that he can now twist the gear indicator lights at night to slim the shutter without risking 3rd degree burns.

Ask your friend if he got any EMI/RF interference from these?

[AdamJD]

On 9/15/2023 at 10:38 AM, Fly Boomer said:

Ask your friend if he got any EMI/RF interference from these?

He said he did not.

[tmo]

Also https://www.aero-lites.com/

I have their LDG/taxi light replacements and the cabin lights (#1813 I think), am just about to order the GE330 replacements for the glareshield, just can't decide if warm white or red is the way to go. Needless to say I am a happy customer.

LED brightness is best regulated via PWM, so if you go all-led you may want to update the thing that shapes their power supply as well.