Not sure metal type zip tie...what is it?

[Mark89114]

Replacing brake lines and the line attached to the main gear has some type of metal roll up thingy that tightens as you twist it.  My mechanic has seen them, but he doesn't know what they are called, I looked in the part manual and no help there.  I assume they used these instead of zip ties for a particular reason?  Can it be replaced with something?

[A64Pilot]

I’ve seen metal type zip ties, but I’ve not seen what you have. Is it easily removable and re-usable? Be interesting to see a photo.

As a general rule I dislike zip ties, I don’t think they belong on aircraft in most cases, I think wires ought to be laced and lines, tubes etc held by DG clamps.

Zip ties and PK screws go hand in hand I believe, they both have uses but do to them being cheap and fast I think are overused, just my opinion.

[Mark89114]

I think this is 2 of then after removing.  The metal has no flex, bends easily and deforms but seems pretty strong.  

[Mark89114]

Looks like you loop it through and somehow tighten it up.  Not knowing what it is problematic.   Around the gear tube frame there was a small piece of material so no metal to metal contact.  

[Z W]

Hah, I posted this exact same question back in May.  It's something called a "Wraplock".  Mine got replaced with some Grip-lock rubber-coated zip ties.  Full discussion here:

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I forget what those are called, but I have researched them before. The company that made them is out of business and nobody makes them any more.
 

If you search eBay, you can sometimes find new old stock.

There are plenty of other metal ty-wraps available. 
 

Just make sure you swing the gear and make sure nothing catches or binds.

[N201MKTurbo]

BTW, the name of those things is in the IPC.

5 -4 2802 .WRAPLOCK 4

[Mark89114]

Thanks for the help everybody.  I didn't read the IPC.....only looked at the pictures to identify. So my bad.

So we think padded Grip-Lock zip ties is the solution?

[N201MKTurbo]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374515809315?hash=item5732e1bc23:g:23AAAOSwjSFj7MCO&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4FcbHcXxdR1PEqcqqYtRJ1xEPXETExyGloK9G5qiqnb32aqaSufsEfYFRP4Q9rjjXX7UH0L9Q3BpeHs4DyOghYztSMOm%2BozSVSjlfF1tesnU%2FpU3guOT%2FvDI4QIj5ocJyUGd7vOrpEcVuxtoIu0VAOW0AeejV0ngXxZ%2FhA8fUDHlgTTu9Im7fJHn%2BtqicmZ%2BpJDi1e46Z%2FRJAUqZs%2BiWHYOUrg3a33zjtZDGcsfMLuo5eywa1kGvVLkYW96ydhEIPCBr%2F85BNcl4F3lm3v4S6D%2BF5c7TEtI4Qu7u2s4sbsOD|tkp%3ABk9SR-KS2vitYg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155618483267?hash=item243b959c43:g:yAkAAOSw1XlkkNG1&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwNfVqjaQe1JomowzZOORnY9LYHPHeChLQWPTpxiwMe4e8j7WPzHDMuqcQVkfjWBBPun7bBLnbEv5YMn9G7oHpg25nyeHfizKldYfVljMOtsvWCp0wK4mGsKMiNXO1CNovWWeC0MWxT%2B1e%2FT%2F%2BsfgCgtbuoDD1%2BDR4Iph%2BbNNmbjopVwDUEtLlczJlgcdp8Wpj58SOTfPcgBzB5Lgim%2FtAKXbQY%2BoK1sWhWBR5w7LDycuaLVJoZ%2Bkn7WSs8%2FWerJR1Q%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8Cs9vitYg

 

[Aerodon]

Look on aircraft spruce for Band-It and aeroquip firesleeve clamps.

 

Aerodon

[Yetti]

It might be possible to reuse.   I was able to reuse mine.   You can unwrap with hand.   Then rewrap with hand.

[N201MKTurbo]

Or for $28 on eBay, you can have a lifetime supply.

[PeteMc]

12 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I don’t think they belong on aircraft in most cases

Okay, I just have to follow up on this.  By no means am I an Aircraft Mechanic, but there are various types of Zip-Ties made out of all sorts of materials to withstand all sorts of chemical or natural exposure.  And Zip-Ties can be cranked down to squeeze the bejesus out of anything or just sinched down slightly to hold something in place.

So my curiosity has gotten the better of me to find out why you think these great attachment/binding devices shouldn't be used on aircraft?  Some of the authentically rebuilt aircraft I've seen have all sorts of attaching devices that are just... well... OLD tech that's only saving grace is that they are historic and not necessarily safe.

 

[EricJ]

25 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Okay, I just have to follow up on this.  By no means am I an Aircraft Mechanic, but there are various types of Zip-Ties made out of all sorts of materials to withstand all sorts of chemical or natural exposure.  And Zip-Ties can be cranked down to squeeze the bejesus out of anything or just sinched down slightly to hold something in place.

So my curiosity has gotten the better of me to find out why you think these great attachment/binding devices shouldn't be used on aircraft?  Some of the authentically rebuilt aircraft I've seen have all sorts of attaching devices that are just... well... OLD tech that's only saving grace is that they are historic and not necessarily safe.

 

Zip ties, aka cable ties, Ty-Raps, etc., were originally developed for aircraft and aerospace applications, where they have been used for many, many decades.    FWIW, so was WD-40, another much maligned "non-aircraft approved" material.

For some reason biases have evolved against these, despite their successful use in far more stressful applications than where we put them.

https://www.abb-conversations.com/us/2021/02/strapped-for-space-perseverances-cable-ties-were-born-in-the-aviation-industry-of-the-1950s/

[Pinecone]

Like many things, they are wonderful for their intended use.  But not the right answer for other uses.  

Stories of issues when misused tend to make some people decide that they are worthless at best and possibly harmful in ALL applications.

[A64Pilot]

I’ve seen several instances of zip ties breaking wires, they make a hard point where the wire bends until it breaks, same for solder joints, wire breaks right at the end of the solder.

They are prohibited at least on the AH-64, but whenever we got a kit to install something it always came with a bag of zip ties, so every crew chief had a bag to take home.

We laced wires on the AH-64, we had wire bundles the size of an arm in places.

We used zip ties to repair camo nets and lots of other uses from these kits, they are great for all kinds of things, just not on my airplane.

I’ve also seen several instance of zip ties getting dirt, often it’s a little oil that attracts the dirt but vibration etc cuts into a steel tube engine mount until the tube has to be repaired or replaced. It’s amazing how good a zip tie with sand and oil will cut, you have to see it to believe it. One can render your engine mount un-airworthy in less than 100 hours.

Then as they age they get brittle and break off easily leaving whatever they secured, unsecured, and they don’t tolerate heat well in the engine compt, it’s not that they melt but heat makes them brittle.

Thrush used bags of them on every new aircraft, it was the one thing I couldn’t get rid of, they are so cheap easy and fast that the owner wouldn’t spend the money, and the FAA allowed them.

If you must use zip ties, the black ones seem to last longer and never put them directly on a tube, but put some kind of cushion between the zip tie and the tube.

By the time you do all of that you may as well spend $1 or less for a DG clamp or two.

https://www.wicksaircraft.com/shop/ms21619-cushion-clamp/?woo_id=107723&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2eilBhCCARIsAG0Pf8uqmcMSYeYn2WgRR1eVacDbqIBZ6hrhvJFF0d_s8vkcLrxBH3NpITMaAhk8EALw_wcB

Edited July 21, 2023 by A64Pilot

[Pinecone]

Lacing will create a similar bend point.  And if used around a metal tube, can get oily, attract grit and act as sandpaper.

[Z W]

Been replacing all the zip ties I can find on the plane with rubber-lined GripLock Ties designed for aviation:

https://griplockties.com/

They're really nice and well worth the money.  I use them in my cars, boats, heavy equipment, etc. now also.  No real reason to use a regular zip tie when they exist.

[A64Pilot]

42 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Lacing will create a similar bend point.  And if used around a metal tube, can get oily, attract grit and act as sandpaper.

No, lacing is soft and very flexible, a zip tie is a hard band, and you don’t lace anything but wiring. It’s movement as well as grit that makes a zip tie cut and no matter how tight you can get a zip tie add a drop of oil and it will move on a tube, the cushioned ones perhaps not I don’t know, a DG clamp doesn’t move easily.

Many things will work, but just scream Ghetto if you will, then there is doing things right. Why not do things right especially if it’s just a little time and very little money, literally a few cents more?

Its like bending over the tail on safety wire, isn’t required, cost no money, but it’s the right way to do it, yet I see all the time it not being done, screams unprofessional to me. Using PK screws in a Tinnerman nut is another thing that annoys me, it works I’ve never heard of an accident from a PK screw falling out, but it’s just wrong.

Using Walmart butt splices and terminals on wiring is another.

[Pinecone]

So lacing can't get oily and pick up grit?

Lacing still makes a point where the movement is constrained, causing extra flex at that point.

[A64Pilot]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

So lacing can't get oily and pick up grit?

Lacing still makes a point where the movement is constrained, causing extra flex at that point.

I don’t think you understand lacing, it’s not used on steel tubing.

You have not laced wires, you don’t tie it hugely tight and it’s soft, a zip tie is hard and is a band that holds the wires tight.

Second post in this thread says it better than I can, with a name of wireweenie I can only assume he is an avionics tech / electrician

https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?50022-Wiring-Harness-Tie-Wraps-vs-Shrink-Tubing-vs-Lacing

I’ve never posted over there and don’t follow the forum, Google found it for me

 

[Pinecone]

You don't have to pull the tye wrap tight.

[EricJ]

10 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

You don't have to pull the tye wrap tight.

I think a lot of the "bad experiences" have been the usual story of using the wrong zip-tie (Ty-rap, whatever) or using it incorrectly for the application.    There are hundreds of different kinds and different materials, so picking the wrong one for a particular job, like many things, may lead to suboptimal results.

[A64Pilot]

22 hours ago, Pinecone said:

You don't have to pull the tye wrap tight.

Did you read the SC link? He says leaving it loose is worse.

Here I cut-n-pasted part for you, he seems to be well informed and what he says jives with my experience.

The padded zip ties are outside my experience

Zip ties will cut wires. Period. The plastic ones rarely last anyways, as they get brittle and break. The nylon ones are much higher quality. IF you decide to go with nylon zip ties on wires, remember two items at each tie point. One, pad the wire with something like a loop of silicone tape. Two, get the zip tie tight! You're not doing the wires any favors with a loose zip tie. The vibration will cause it to cut into the wire. I've seen some sizable wires cut off by a simple nylon zip tie.

Edited July 24, 2023 by A64Pilot

[Pinecone]

But making it tight makes a stress point.