IFR Rated?

[jetdriven]

Encounters with weather make up perhaps the largest segment of Mooney accidents.  After 15 years of flying all kinds of airplanes, I vastly underestimated the need for a current instrument rating and inflight weather.  These planes can cover 1500 miles a day, and there is going to be clouds or more somewhere along that route usually.   

from:  http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/sp9510.html

 

With retractable singles, one of the leading causes of serious accidents continues to be entanglements with weather, and the Mooney is no exception. Poor weather judgment racks up a staggering 26 percent of accidents in both Mooneys and the other airplanes in the review.

[flyby201]

Yes! I got weathered in one year at Christmas and had to miss a couple of days at work.  Started on it as soon as I got home.  Now another question, how many of us IR pilots are current?  Even Scott Crossfield, legendary pilot that he was, wasn't current when he bought the big one flying in IMC.  I'm not because I haven't been flying much in the past 6 months, but it's pretty high on my to do list.

[kris_adams]

I finished my instrument rating in my mooney 2 years ago.  The amazing thing is that I seem to always have much better weather now.  I'm not complaining though!

[201er]

Quote: JimR

 

Since I fly strictly for fun I limit the amount of money that I allow myself to blow on my hobby.  I could probably purchase and operate a properly IFR equipped mid/late 90s C172 on a comparable budget to my minimally equipped early 201, but I know from my prior experience owning a Cherokee 180 that doing so would not meet either my mission requirements or my aircraft ownership aspirations. So I give up a little to get a little. I suspect that most of us make similar compromises when determining what and how we fly, although we all handle the computations a bit differently depending on our circumstances, which is fine, of course.

 

[M016576]

Quote: flyby201

Yes! I got weathered in one year at Christmas and had to miss a couple of days at work.  Started on it as soon as I got home.  Now another question, how many of us IR pilots are current?  Even Scott Crossfield, legendary pilot that he was, wasn't current when he bought the big one flying in IMC.  I'm not because I haven't been flying much in the past 6 months, but it's pretty high on my to do list.

[M016576]

Gosh, I only fly IFR in the mooney to A) practice approaches using my fancy waas GPS and if I absolutely have to.  Otherwise, it's too expensive.  I tend to not fly hard IFR ever in a light single, but if it's a tweener, then I'm more likely to launch VFR if able and pick up an IFR clearance if necessary while airborne, or launch ifr, punch through the layer, then cancel assuming VFR is forecast at my destination.  Unfortunately I'm on a budget when it comes to the mooney, and the extra vectors and long straight in approaches are costly in fuel.  VFR is more efficient IMHO.  I've flown into Brackett field, SMO and VAn Nuys a couple times each and while it would be less hectic to queue up w/ an ifr approach, going VFR is much faster in those high traffic areas.  Remember, just because you are ifr, doesn't relieve you of the responsibilities of visual deconfliction if you are vmc.  Poeple make mistakes, lose SA, etc, and controllers are just as falable as a pilot.  Granted you do get the extra eyes looking at the scope, but inside the mode C veil, controllers are aware of your presence, even if you aren't on an ifr flight plan... 

[PTK]

Quote: HartParr

No, what I meant was I that I am horrified by instructors that don't teach students pilots very well. They were taught by some kid just needing hours for his next rating. I learned to fly from an old gentleman in the early '80s and learned spins, dead stick landings, and unusual attitudes that would turn most pilots green. He believed recovery from unusual attitudes during the day was cheating, nothing like being at stall, upside-down at night and under the hood to see if you knew how to read what the panel was telling you.

[GaryP1007]

Use it all the time. Currently in SC visiting my sick mom. Wouldn't have done the trip without the ticket. 

[danb35]

Have the instrument rating, and it's come in very useful.  Don't at all think it should be mandatory for all pilots, though.  I do, though, find it hard to understand why a Mooney owner/pilot would not be at least moving toward getting it.

Here's my reasoning: Mooneys are built for XC, the longer the better.  This implies extended time aloft as well as long distance.  You can easily cross wx systems, and wx can change while you're up there.  This adds up to (in my mind) an instrument rating being very useful (though, admittedly, not absolutely essential) to the kind of flying that Mooneys are best suited for.

Of course, this may not be the case in other parts of the country.  I expect that, in the southwest, CAVU prevails 330+ days/year, so maybe it isn't such an issue there.  Here, I need the ticket to be able to keep any kind of schedule.

 

[jetdriven]

Quote: M016576

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scott Crossfield died when his aircraft broke up in flight while trying to skirt a thunderhead.  I don't think a current IFR ticket would have saved him, but XM weather might have, if it had been around....  That 35 bucks a month is the best money any pilot can spend IMHO...

[DaV8or]

Quote: allsmiles

Wow!! And you regularly practice spins and unusual attitudes in the Mooney at night to stay current right?!

I'll tell you one thing, I will not spin my airplane day or night!! I think the goal is to NOT put the airplane in this situation to begin with by proper recognition and control. I don't think the IR will help most folks or airplanes too much once in that deep! Depends on the airplane and the pilot.

The instrument rating, I think, is essential for safety and increased utility. Its real purpose is to be able to depart and arrive in down to minimums weather. Not so much enroute but departure and arrival. Without it is a handicap.

[PTK]

Dave, what is "scheech"?!

[John Pleisse]

Just prior to buying my Mooney, my mother-in-law was dating a Corporate Gulfstream Pilot. He was the chief pilot for a local auto dealership tycoon and they had a few jets. She suggested he and I have lunch. During our meeeting I told him I wanted a Mooney or Bonanza. He asked how many hours I had. I said 350 (14 years ago). He then asked if I was instrument rated. I said no. His response? Ya know John (shaking his head bewilderment), without an instrument rating, you can really get youself in a whole lotta trouble, real quick.

The check game and I grabbed it. 2 days later I bought my Mooney, but flew 70 non stop hours of intrument training and solid IMC over a period of 5 months. After only two hours of training, I was shocked that I actually considered not doing it. My first year with the rating, I flew just shy of 200 hours.

The best advice I ever got.  And the Mooney is a great plane to learn the skills.

 

[rainman]

I bought my 231 in June with the idea of completing my IR. I've passed the written and am close to being ready for the check ride, but my plane just spent two months on the ground (see "Smoke in the cockpit" thread). It's finally fixed and I'm back to the training.  It's about safety, and can only make me a better pilot. It doesn't hurt that it adds some flexibility to the travel plan, but safety is the main reason I'm pursuing the training.  Ray

[John Pleisse]

Quote: JimR

In general I have found the Mooney community to be somewhat snobbish to non instrument rated pilots. ................ But I feel strongly that the guys who polish their knuckles on their chest and suggest to the masses that Mooneys can only be flown on instrument flight plans are doing a disservice to the marque. 

[Hank]

Jim/Dan/Dave, et. al.--

The Mooney is an incredible airplane, very capable, dependable and versatile. I flew back-and-forth over the Appalachians many times VFR, and even went west to Yellowstone and back without an Instrument rating. Yes, we sat down early one time each way, but stopping short of Springfield, IL by hitting Lincoln instead didn't cost much time or distance, and we discovered it's a pretty neat little town with a museum at the airport.

Yes, I canceled a few VFR flights for weather. Yes, I still cancel a few IFR flights for weather, most recently last week. Clear and a million here; 1500-3000 scattered-to-broken there; moderate turbulence along the entire 2-hour route; convective sigmet covering all of the destination state [RDU is pretty much in the middle of NC]. Didn't like the briefing that morning, so we didn't fly.

It is very possible to have lots of fun and go lots of neat places, even in these wonderful Mooneys, as a VFR pilot. Been there, done that, had a blast! I flew 275 VFR hours in almost three years, from receiving the Complex Endorsment at 78.7 hours to the IA checkride. Went lots of places, only missed a few flights.

Since I fly for fun and not for work, I avoid "hard IFR" when possible, but when you are traveling, weather happens. [Go around? Land and wait it out? or Press on?] The rating gives me security on two fronts:  1) I have the ability to find the airport even if I can't see it; 2) I trust the instruments, and can interpret them in the face of conflicting kinesthic input. Need to mess up your head a little? Fly along in the clouds [or under the hood] at low power [such as an initial clearance to 3000', expect higher in 10 minutes], then go briskly into a full-power climb. I learned not to do this by doing it once; now I push things forward in the clouds somewhat slower.

Getting the PPL and learning the Mooney made me a competent pilot. This was reinforced, and I was made a more accurate pilot, by the additional experiences of IFR training. Maybe because my CFII was a former regional airline pilot, flying into such fun locations as Johnstown, PA; maybe it was just the airline training and procedures; whatever, I now hold heading and altitude much closer, even VFR, and my wife complains much less about landing away from the centerline. But you can still be an accurate VFR pilot, you just have to make yourself work at it, or pay a II to sit beside you and make you work!

Is the IA useful? No doubt. Is more training a good thing to get? Certainly! Do I get to fly more often? Not especially, local fun flights and meals out just aren't fun in the clouds, and the food quality doesn't justify the risk.

Did the Instrument training improve my flying? You bet! Do I feel better about long XC trips? Mostly, but it's still a judgement call with the briefing and forecast. THAT is the place where pilots seem to have been falling down for the last hundred years. And judgement is so darn hard to teach, much less test for!

Keep flying VFR if that's what you want. It has worked for thousands of pilots for tens of decades, and will continue to do so. It all comes down to your judgement--should I fly today? Land short or press on? will there be a hole in the undercast developing below me or not? should I really take off in the fog just because it's legal, when I can't land again IFR or VFR in case of problems? Are those clouds ahead thicker on the other side of the mountains?

[Parker_Woodruff]

Instrument rated since 2006 and current.

[sapientia]

Just finished my Instrument Part 141 Stage I check yesterday; hopefully in another couple months I'll have the IR ticket.  Then I just have to go out and buy a Mooney!

[DaV8or]

Quote: allsmiles

Dave, what is "scheech"?!

[Immelman]

To answer your question, yes... to add to it, there are three things I think every airplane pilot could use:

1. Instrument rating

2. Enough tailwheel time to know how to use the rudder and land one

3. Enough aerobatic time to know that the airplane can fly regardless of which way the nose is pointed; that is, enough to have an intuitive sense of angle of attack, regardless of airspeed or attitude.

 

 

[201er]

Let's recall the Feb 2012 issue of flying article, The Slippery Slope (or NTSB report version). Wouldn't this guy's life been so much easier (and still alive) if he wasn't such a cheapass and shelled out for an instrument rating sooner?

I think one of the greatest safety benefits of instrument rating is providing some relief for getthereitis. It's true that even with an instrument rating it's not always possible to get in but usually it's a matter of waiting some hours to get minimums or end thunderstorms. Whereas for a VFR only pilot, he could get socked in for days because of a steady low pressure system.

[Steve Dawson]

I received my IFR rating in 1988 and followed it up with approximately 600 hours in the next few years but let it lapse a while ago. When I bought my 201 last year I knew that I wanted to get the rating again so I started with lessons. Because of work schedules and weather I used 4 different instructors. Between learning new systems such as GPS and newer weather information I felt each instructor gave me alot more insight into flying that I'd either forgot or needed to know. My last instructor is a retired airline pilot with over 30K hours and with the 2 days spent with him I picked up more pertinent information about flying safe and cockpit information and management that I passed my practical easily. Personally I would recommend taking a very thorough IFR course followed by a refresher course just before your exam while getting an instructor that you're comfortable with that has alot of actual IFR experience. It's all about safety.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: sapientia

Just finished my Instrument Part 141 Stage I check yesterday; hopefully in another couple months I'll have the IR ticket.  Then I just have to go out and buy a Mooney!

[mooneym20d]

Quote: xftrplt

So it's an IR.  I'll be damned. And I had always thought the Navy used a fire hose.

[DaV8or]

This poll should have included a "Yes I am instument rated, but not current." option. Getting the IR was tough, but keeping current has proven even tougher. Now I'm so far behind, it's pretty much like starting all over again. Having the 430 doesn't really help much either. That thing is a user interface nightmare. Anybody know of a FAA approved simulator with a 430 in it in my area?

This is posted by the real Dav8or!