Sensitive nose wheel steering

[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, Jpravi8tor said:

Here is my collar, I am going to disassemble and overhaul the gear next so keep the comments about my ugly gear to a minimum please

 

It’s not easy to say for sure, but your collar appears to be original, so it likely just needs the spacer to make it comply with the SB.

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-202.pdf

I’ve never known any Mooney to need any extraordinary ability to track straight on landing, and I’m no Chuck Yeager or superpilot.  I think there’s likely a mechanical reason that yours is so difficult to control.  Mine needed oversized bushings from LASAR (PMA’ed) to tighten everything up, and I reinstalled the spacer so mine tracks nicely (Like you, I’m also an A&P/IA.)

PS- wow, your gear is ugly.   Please post pictures when you get it cleaned up and beautified. 

[cliffy]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:51 AM, Jpravi8tor said:

I'm currently flying a Falcon 900LX with a tiller for steering and hydraulically boosted controls. I use the tiller up to 80 knots then transition to the rudders for steering authority.

when landing typical speeds are 125 knots where I control the aircraft with rudder inputs and braking until the aircraft slow to about 60 knots then transition to the tiller.

This is why I made the statement about dancing on the rudder pedals. I will learn how to tame the nosewheel steering in time, I will only land on wide runways until then.

Thanks to all who shared their experiences.

With only 4 tenths in a Mooney and out of a Falcon you are just over controlling the rudder pedals

I was 5 years on a Boeing  before my Mooney and I overcontrolled like crazy the first few landings, 

Keep  your heels on the floor and not raised on the pedals as you do in big iron 

Also have your nose wheel raised off the ground (NOT by laying on the tail!) and see how much free play you have L and R at the nose tire

If its more than a few degrees either side  get the steering linkage in the nose well repaired or replaced

 

[Jpravi8tor]

You sir have hit the proverbial nail on the head!

[Shadrach]

12 hours ago, cliffy said:

With only 4 tenths in a Mooney and out of a Falcon you are just over controlling the rudder pedals

I was 5 years on a Boeing  before my Mooney and I overcontrolled like crazy the first few landings, 

Keep  your heels on the floor and not raised on the pedals as you do in big iron 

Also have your nose wheel raised off the ground (NOT by laying on the tail!) and see how much free play you have L and R at the nose tire

If its more than a few degrees either side  get the steering linkage in the nose well repaired or replaced

 

I would think nose gear steering sensitivity would be decreased by play in he nose gear linkage not increased.

[Jpravi8tor]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:57 PM, Jpravi8tor said:

Greetings members, I finally got to fly my F model and was pleased with everything except the nose wheel steering. The steering seems very sensitive and I found myself over correcting veering from side to side. This happened on landing roll out and I feel like my inexperience as a Mooney pilot is showing. What techniques need to be employed on landing? I’m thinking about keeping my feet off the rudder pedals until the aircraft slows. What say you braintrust.

As I stated in the original post the steering is sensitive  (aka there is no play)  The aircraft tracks straight and true.

my inexperience with direct linkage to the nose wheel caused me to do some interesting s turns after landing. I was looking for techniques to avoid large steering inputs.

feet flat on floor dont attempt to brake until slowing even pressure on both pedals to keep it straight. Things of that nature.

I have many hours in Twin commanders and the only thing harder to steer than that is a piper Aerostar which I have also flown. I did better with my first tail wheel landing in an L19 bird dog than I did in this Mooney. I wish I could reduce the efficiency of the nose wheel steering and use differential braking but I’m sure as with the other complex aircraft I have flown I will hopefully master the mighty Mooney!

[Hank]

11 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I would think nose gear steering sensitivity would be decreased by play in he nose gear linkage not increased.

No, play allows the nose wheel to steer itself, then when you correct it, it flops over too far.

Say the play steers to the left by say 2°, you put in 2° ti the right and it flops an extra 2° to the right. Now you need to steer 4° left, so the wheel flops an extra 2°, making 6° left of desired course down the runway. Kind of like pilot-induced oscillations leading to a prop strike.

[Hank]

@Jpravi8tor, save differential braking fir tight turns. I use it when i have to back taxi and make a 180 on the runway, and for spinning around on the pad in front of my hangar. Steering on taxiways and runways does nor need differential braking.

After landing, slow to 50 and raise flaps before braking, then adjust pressure with both feet to stay straight. I generally release brakes and use full rudder to turn onto a taxiway. For.high speed exits at big airports, brakes and extra slowing are not required . . . . They're far enough down that I often add throttle to reach them.

[milotron]

I have been struggling with 'darty' steering since I got my K. I had the steering horn replaced with a refurbed unit with little change. Based on this post, had a look at the collar the other day and it has been installed with the larger gap towards the top, suggesting it may have been put together wrong at some time? I'll my mechanic to swap this over next annual as I need to get the front tire replaced too. I am happy to hear that there may actually be an issue as every other plane I fly is rock solid on the rollout.

I would post photos but my gear is dirty and y'all are really judgy about this...

 

[Shadrach]

19 minutes ago, Hank said:

No, play allows the nose wheel to steer itself, then when you correct it, it flops over too far.

Say the play steers to the left by say 2°, you put in 2° ti the right and it flops an extra 2° to the right. Now you need to steer 4° left, so the wheel flops an extra 2°, making 6° left of desired course down the runway. Kind of like pilot-induced oscillations leading to a prop strike.

I haven’t found the Mooney steering to be particularly tight.  even after a complete overhaul there are several degrees of play when turning the nose gear on jacks.  I have not found that this manifests as poor steering feel from the cockpit.

[cliffy]

A few degrees is normal tolerance a lot of degrees is too much wear. I've seen a lot of wear iMooneys. 

Go to the SB and drop a plumb line down from the nose gear truss as it shows to do and really see if you have the correct caster.  

Until you do that you are just guessing. 

[Jpravi8tor]

I have a new steering horn shaft assembly that was installed 20 hours ago, Albeit 20 years ago as well.

when I performed the gear retraction test I was impressed with the condition of the nose gear as ugly as it is.

[Shadrach]

16 minutes ago, Jpravi8tor said:

I have a new steering horn shaft assembly that was installed 20 hours ago, Albeit 20 years ago as well.

when I performed the gear retraction test I was impressed with the condition of the nose gear as ugly as it is.

It’s a shame they didn’t take the time to paint it while it was apart. Better to be good than to look good.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Jpravi8tor said:

As I stated in the original post the steering is sensitive  (aka there is no play)  The aircraft tracks straight and true.

my inexperience with direct linkage to the nose wheel caused me to do some interesting s turns after landing. I was looking for techniques to avoid large steering inputs.

feet flat on floor dont attempt to brake until slowing even pressure on both pedals to keep it straight. Things of that nature.

I have many hours in Twin commanders and the only thing harder to steer than that is a piper Aerostar which I have also flown. I did better with my first tail wheel landing in an L19 bird dog than I did in this Mooney. I wish I could reduce the efficiency of the nose wheel steering and use differential braking but I’m sure as with the other complex aircraft I have flown I will hopefully master the mighty Mooney!

The nosewheel steering is much less sensitive if you hold the nosewheel off the ground after touchdown  

Just remember during crosswinds landings to center the pedals quickly when the nosewheel actually touches down.