Damaged Nose Gear- AOG

[slowflyin]

Unfortunate event while away from home.  No luck with LASAR.   My info. Shows part number 540004-509.  Alan may have one off a J. Can anyone advise whether or not it will fit?  AC is a 94 Bravo.  No luck with LASAR. 

[N201MKTurbo]

Wow, they really got you!

I have a spare truss, but you need a trunnion too.

[Shadrach]

Holy Shite... That is the worst truss I have ever seen. Who did it and how did it happen?

[Andy95W]

4 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Holy Shite... That is the worst truss I have ever seen. Who did it and how did it happen?

What got me was the damage done to the steering stop bracket- that is supposed to prevent this type of damage!

 

[Guest]

With a long enough tow bar and a big enough tractor you can do amazing things to nose gear.  Does Mooney have stock?  Why settle for an overhauled one if someone else is paying for it.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, Andy95W said:

What got me was the damage done to the steering stop bracket- that is supposed to prevent this type of damage!

 

Looks to me like the truss bushing and bolt are also compromised. I would guess this was done with a tug by an inexperienced operator.  I lost a truss to a line guy many years ago but it was minor and the FBO said it could have happened anywhere. SOP now is to take pic with my phone before leaving the plane.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Shadrach

[slowflyin]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

With a long enough tow bar and a big enough tractor you can do amazing things to nose gear.  Does Mooney have stock?  Why settle for an overhauled one if someone else is paying for it.

Clarence

Great advice!  I called and left a voicemail.  Fingers crossed. 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, slowflyin said:

Great advice!  I called and left a voicemail.  Fingers crossed. 

I would look carefully at the upper trunnion, it has a pretty good mark in the paint.  Also the belly should be opened from end to end to inspect for damage to the nose steering linkage, rudder pedal linkages, rudder push rods, rudder control stops in the tailcone and lastly the rudder for signs of damage.

Clarence

[PT20J]

36 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I would look carefully at the upper trunnion, it has a pretty good mark in the paint.  Also the belly should be opened from end to end to inspect for damage to the nose steering linkage, rudder pedal linkages, rudder push rods, rudder control stops in the tailcone and lastly the rudder for signs of damage.

Clarence

Good point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe correct rigging hits the rudder stops first or simultaneously with the nose steering stops.

[Guest]

Same process for the Bravo.

Clarence

[carusoam]

Yikes…

Check with @Chrigi for parts related to the damage…. He has an Ovation being parted out…

-a-

[slowflyin]

13 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I would look carefully at the upper trunnion, it has a pretty good mark in the paint.  Also the belly should be opened from end to end to inspect for damage to the nose steering linkage, rudder pedal linkages, rudder push rods, rudder control stops in the tailcone and lastly the rudder for signs of damage.

Clarence

AC going on jacks today. Belly will be opened up and system checked from front to back. No joy on Mooney email-it bounced back. Maybe they will reply to VM.  

[slowflyin]

Thanks for all the responses!  As always, this group has been very helpful.  If anyone has an email for Mooney Corp. parts that works I’d appreciate a reply.  No joy with fsc@mooney.com Thanks again!

[A64Pilot]

Can the tubes not just be replaced by a good welder?

[N201MKTurbo]

11 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Can the tubes not just be replaced by a good welder?

Once a long time ago, I had a truss repaired by a local mechanic. He called Mooney for the procedure. I recall the truss had to be sent out for heat treatment after welding.

[mike_elliott]

You might reach out to Steve Rue srue@donmaxwell.com Steve used to be the parts guy at Mooney, now I believe is fed by Don.  Yours looks like "minor" damage...here is what could have resulted...BTW this was from a 30 hr old Acclaim that $ignature had their way with.

 

[PT20J]

Mooney will only sell parts through a MSC so it’s best to call your favorite one rather than the factory to check general parts availability.

Skip

[ArtVandelay]

I always remind the FBO of Mooneys large turning radius. They’re usual response is “oh yeah, we know”.
I’m guessing there’s 2 kind of tug operators, 1 that has botched the nose gear and the other that will.

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, slowflyin said:

Thanks for all the responses!  As always, this group has been very helpful.  If anyone has an email for Mooney Corp. parts that works I’d appreciate a reply.  No joy with fsc@mooney.com Thanks again!

I dont believe Frank Crawford is there any longer

EDIT
David V indicates he is in a few posts lower. Great to hear!

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

I always remind the FBO of Mooneys large turning radius. They’re usual response is “oh yeah, we know”.
I’m guessing there’s 2 kind of tug operators, 1 that has botched the nose gear and the other that will.

Once when I mentioned to a tug operator with my airplane hooked up that Mooneys have steering limits, he replied, "They all do." 

[PT20J]

2 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Once when I mentioned to a tug operator with my airplane hooked up that Mooneys have steering limits, he replied, "They all do." 

He’s right, of course, and the amount of damage done here indicates ground handling that might have broken any airplane. The problem with Mooneys is that the turn radius is more limited than many other airplanes and the older ones don’t have turn stops (except for the rudder stops that are in the tail). The later models with turn stops aren’t completely safe either since the stops are not very strong and are fairly easily broken as shown in the pictures.

I’ve never found an FBO that doesn’t know about Mooneys. It’s almost impossible not to have them tug it — they are not going to hand tow it out to the north forty when they decide to park it for the night. Most times, I talk to whoever is going to move the plane and make sure they understand. If I’m not comfortable with the situation I just ask them where they want it and park it myself. 

Skip

[MikeOH]

26 minutes ago, PT20J said:

... I just ask them where they want it and park it myself. 

Skip

^^^ THIS ^^^

Is exactly what I do.  Where can I park so you WILL NOT move my plane?

[A64Pilot]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Once a long time ago, I had a truss repaired by a local mechanic. He called Mooney for the procedure. I recall the truss had to be sent out for heat treatment after welding.

Stress relieving, best done in an oven at if memory serves around 800F, but it can be done via an acetylene torch. it’s done to relax the stresses that welding build in from uneven heating and cooling, it’s to help prevent cracking.

But it’s pretty common and well known for 4130 as that’s a very common steel.

‘We used to stress relieve our engine mounts, landing gear, shock mount attach points and a couple of other highly stressed items. 

Some will call it normalizing, which it’s not really, but if the steel were heat treated, it will normalize it.

Googling stress relieving 4130 tubing or similar ought to get some good links.

Its not hard to do or ought not be expensive to have done.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I always remind the FBO of Mooneys large turning radius. They’re usual response is “oh yeah, we know”.
I’m guessing there’s 2 kind of tug operators, 1 that has botched the nose gear and the other that will.

Similar to Mooney pilots, those who have landed gear up and those who haven't yet!

Clarence

[toto]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

He’s right, of course, and the amount of damage done here indicates ground handling that might have broken any airplane. The problem with Mooneys is that the turn radius is more limited than many other airplanes and the older ones don’t have turn stops (except for the rudder stops that are in the tail). The later models with turn stops aren’t completely safe either since the stops are not very strong and are fairly easily broken as shown in the pictures.

I’ve never found an FBO that doesn’t know about Mooneys. It’s almost impossible not to have them tug it — they are not going to hand tow it out to the north forty when they decide to park it for the night. Most times, I talk to whoever is going to move the plane and make sure they understand. If I’m not comfortable with the situation I just ask them where they want it and park it myself. 

Skip

If I know what FBO I'm likely to visit, I always email ahead with a copy of the service letter, and ask them to acknowledge that the line staff have been made aware of the restrictions.  Whether this will actually prevent damage, I don't know, but I do like having a paper trail.

Also not a bad idea to snap a picture of your nose gear when you leave the plane - to avoid any later suggestion that the truss damage was already present when you arrived.

 

Mooney-turn-radius-service-instruction.pdf