JPI Service Pirep

[0TreeLemur]

In May the Remote Alarm Light (RAL) on the JPI EDM900 engine monitor in our M20C stopped working.  I tested the LEDs using a multimeter and they seemed bad.   Turns out, I should have used the diode test function to overcome the forward bias voltage.  Live and learn.  Some here on MS pointed me to the source of a replacement RAL, which I tried to no effect.   I contacted JPI in late May and was given an RMA, but told not to send it in immediately.   I told them that we have a trip scheduled for June 25.

A week later I called JPI and they asked me to send it in.  In the box I included a request to fix the RAL problem and re-program to remove red RPM arc because we upgraded to a Top Prop that has no intermediate rpm restrictions on the M20C.   They received it on Friday, June 4.

Contacted them on Monday, June 14, to inquire about the status.  Was told that typical turnaround time is 1-2 weeks.

Contacted them on Friday, June 18, with a reminder that I have a trip scheduled for 25 June.  After checking with the service dept. my repair was moved to the front of the queue.  Later that day they e-mailed back and said it was done.  They had to replace one of the circuit boards.

No charge for the repair plus no charge for the first reprogramming request.   All I had to pay was shipping.  Received it yesterday and look forward to testing.

All told, a positive outcome.  I had a month between trips, and that was enough time.   Not fast.  Responsive service.   Communications essential.

[PeteMc]

The few times over the years I've had questions or sent my unit in for firmware updates they have always been responsive.

Glad to hear that's still true.

[0TreeLemur]

Here's the new layout on the EDM900.  It's a little bit different.   First the good: they removed the red arc from 2000-2150 rpm for no continuous operations because we upgraded propellers.   Also, I sent them the Lycoming specification that gives the max. fuel pressure limit and they made that change (yea!).  No more fuel pressure alarms at 6.1 psi on takeoff!

The software upgrade changed the display a bit.    They show the tach time at the top of the display.  Nice.   Fuel quantity indications require more interpretation because they eliminated the gallons on the display.   They moved the ff above the carb temp.  The bar chart for CHT and EGT are a bit blockier.  I do miss the gallons readout because it was easy to interpret, and always spot on. Hope they decide at some point to put that back on.

Photo shows original (2018) display layout on the left, and new on the right.

 

 

 

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Here's the new layout on the EDM900.  It's a little bit different.   First the good: they removed the red arc from 2000-2150 rpm for no continuous operations because we upgraded propellers.   Also, I sent them the Lycoming specification that gives the max. fuel pressure limit and they made that change (yea!).  No more fuel pressure alarms at 6.1 psi on takeoff!

The software upgrade changed the display a bit.    They show the tach time at the top of the display.  Nice.   Fuel quantity indications require more interpretation because they eliminated the gallons on the display.   They moved the ff above the carb temp.  The bar chart for CHT and EGT are a bit blockier.  I do miss the gallons readout because it was easy to interpret, and always spot on. Hope they decide at some point to put that back on.

Photo shows original (2018) display layout on the left, and new on the right.

Wow - reall bummed to see them drop numerical display of Gallons.

My recollection is that they first started displaying gallons numerically to the tenth of a gallon.

Then they decided that was an issue and they dropped the tenth to display only gallons - false sense of accuracy I presume.

And now we're seeing them drop the numerical number of gallons entirely! 

Maybe this makes some sense with original resistive factory senders that aren't that accurate, but with the newer CIES senders which are very accurate this really goes against why we wanted to install accurate fuel senders in the first place! I am really bummed this "upgrade" is looming in my future as a EDM-900 owner.

Edited June 26, 2021 by kortopates

[ArtVandelay]

I thought the numeric display of fuel levels was an option? Did you go through all the settings?

[Tom 4536]

The gallons are a pilot selectable option in the pilot menu. I changed mine to gallons about 3 months ago.

[kortopates]

24 minutes ago, Tom 4536 said:

The gallons are a pilot selectable option in the pilot menu. I changed mine to gallons about 3 months ago.

Great, Disaster averted!

[0TreeLemur]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:56 PM, Tom 4536 said:

The gallons are a pilot selectable option in the pilot menu. I changed mine to gallons about 3 months ago.

Thanks.  I did go through the settings, but must have missed that one.

[Marauder]

Thanks.  I did go through the settings, but must have missed that one.

I think you can re-order items as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[DXB]

@0TreeLemur I'm glad it worked out - it's nice they didn't charge you. I also have a JPI EDM900 in my C - It's primary and I took out all the old gauges. In retrospect I would have at least kept analog RPM/MP gauges - the EDM900 is not bullet proof as your experience confirms.  

Like you, I got the firmware upgrade done (in my case when putting in CiES fuel senders).  My main frustration with the updated firmware is that now there is no way to permanently silence the "low fuel" annunciation that comes on with comes on the first time either tank sender registers 5-7 gallons.  You can silence it , but any subtle change in attitude can take the reading above 7 gallons momentarily resets it, and then the alarm triggers constantly.  If you change to the fuller tank and leave the less full one at 7 gallons, you will have the alarm going off again and again for the rest of the flight.   I've actually changed my fuel management strategy to address this obnoxious issue by always trying to run any tank that I need to use down to <10 gallons all the way down to 2-3 gallons before switching, so it can't fluctuate enough to rearm the low fuel annunciation.   

I'm curious if you'll have the same problem - I've called JPI a couple of times about it, but they seemed rather uninterested in trying to help.

[0TreeLemur]

5 minutes ago, DXB said:

@0TreeLemur I'm glad it worked out - it's nice they didn't charge you. I also have a JPI EDM900 in my C - It's primary and I took out all the old gauges. In retrospect I would have at least kept analog RPM/MP gauges - the EDM900 is not bullet proof as your experience confirms.  

Like you, I got the firmware upgrade done (in my case when putting in CiES fuel senders).  My main frustration with the updated firmware is that now there is no way to permanently silence the "low fuel" annunciation that comes on with comes on the first time either tank sender registers 5-7 gallons.  You can silence it , but any subtle change in attitude can take the reading above 7 gallons momentarily resets it, and then the alarm triggers constantly.  If you change to the fuller tank and leave the less full one at 7 gallons, you will have the alarm going off again and again for the rest of the flight.   I've actually changed my fuel management strategy to address this obnoxious issue by always trying to run any tank that I need to use down to <10 gallons all the way down to 2-3 gallons before switching, so it can't fluctuate enough to rearm the low fuel annunciation.   

I'm curious if you'll have the same problem - I've called JPI a couple of times about it, but they seemed rather uninterested in trying to help.

I noticed that I was getting more low fuel alarms this trip.   On the final to landing on both legs I got low fuel warnings that were unnecessary.  I was on the fullest tank with over 10 gallons remaining.

For fuel management, I use the same strategy.  Most of my cross country flights involve long legs.  I'll switch tanks after an hour, run the other down to almost empty, then switch back to the other.  It is comforting to know exactly how much fuel and flight time remaining after that point to reach the destination.   This time of year even that doesn't solve the problem in turbulence if the sender gets lofted by short jolts of -ve g's.

It seems like this is a new "feature" that we'll just have to live with...

Anyway I still really like the EDM 900.  Like you, we removed all the old gauges.  I don't miss them.

 

[0TreeLemur]

Looking through the JPI EDM900 documents online, I don't see where adding integer display of gallons remaining to the fuel level indicators is an option.  Searched through the installation guide, FMS, and pilot's guide.   Anyone point me in the right direction?

[Tom 4536]

EDM Pilot's Guide, page 42-Digital Fuel Level Display.

[DXB]

21 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I noticed that I was getting more low fuel alarms this trip.   On the final to landing on both legs I got low fuel warnings that were unnecessary.  I was on the fullest tank with over 10 gallons remaining.

Yeah - unfortunately it has no idea what tank you're on - and the other tank's sender passing through the fuel quantity that triggers the annunciation during changes in attitude will keep triggering it.  It is both annoying and potentially an unsafe distraction say during an approach in IMC. It scares passengers also. I now do everything I can to prevent a tank reading 4-8 gallons during descent to land, just to avoid this distraction. It's such an annoyance that I would have rebuilt my old senders and kept the old software rather than upgrade to CiES had I known this would be an issue. JPI must get tons of negative feedback about it, but but they don't seem to care.

[Marauder]

22 hours ago, DXB said:

@0TreeLemur I'm glad it worked out - it's nice they didn't charge you. I also have a JPI EDM900 in my C - It's primary and I took out all the old gauges. In retrospect I would have at least kept analog RPM/MP gauges - the EDM900 is not bullet proof as your experience confirms.  

Like you, I got the firmware upgrade done (in my case when putting in CiES fuel senders).  My main frustration with the updated firmware is that now there is no way to permanently silence the "low fuel" annunciation that comes on with comes on the first time either tank sender registers 5-7 gallons.  You can silence it , but any subtle change in attitude can take the reading above 7 gallons momentarily resets it, and then the alarm triggers constantly.  If you change to the fuller tank and leave the less full one at 7 gallons, you will have the alarm going off again and again for the rest of the flight.   I've actually changed my fuel management strategy to address this obnoxious issue by always trying to run any tank that I need to use down to <10 gallons all the way down to 2-3 gallons before switching, so it can't fluctuate enough to rearm the low fuel annunciation.   

I'm curious if you'll have the same problem - I've called JPI a couple of times about it, but they seemed rather uninterested in trying to help.

Keeping another set of MP/RPM and fuel management gauges was something I did. EI offers some nice options. The downside of the JPI is everything is in that box. I had my display replaced 3 times. It just plain grounds you. 

As for the low fuel indications. I think there are two settings that can be modified by the pilot. One is the advisory low fuel limit and I believe the other is the "pre-alarm". The latter is whether or not you get the pre-alarm. I will play around with the settings this week to see how mine is set up. I don't get low fuel tank until it hits 5 gallons. And if I clear it, I don't think it comes back.

[DXB]

Just now, Marauder said:

Keeping another set of MP/RPM and fuel management gauges was something I did. EI offers some nice options. The downside of the JPI is everything is in that box. I had my display replaced 3 times. It just plain grounds you. 

As for the low fuel indications. I think there are two settings that can be modified by the pilot. One is the advisory low fuel limit and I believe the other is the "pre-alarm". The latter is whether or not you get the pre-alarm. I will play around with the settings this week to see how mine is set up. I don't get low fuel tank until it hits 5 gallons. And if I clear it, I don't think it comes back.

Huh -  thought I'd exhausted all the user-adjustable setting options but maybe I missed something. Let me know what software version you have also - It's possible I have a newer one since I installed my digital senders long after you did.

[0TreeLemur]

Ok, fuel gallons remaining display problem solved.   There is an option in the setup menu "Fuel Level Digital Display" or something like that.  Changed to "Y" it shows the gallons remaining in each tank.  My world is now meeting expectations...

 

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Ok, fuel gallons remaining display problem solved.   There is an option in the setup menu "Fuel Level Digital Display" or something like that.  Changed to "Y" it shows the gallons remaining in each tank.  My world is now meeting expectations...

 

Awesome!

Now my questions… do you have the i2s senders for MP, Oil P, and fuel P?  Are they stable or do they bounce around a lot in cruise?

[0TreeLemur]

11 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Awesome!

Now my questions… do you have the i2s senders for MP, Oil P, and fuel P?  Are they stable or do they bounce around a lot in cruise?

The MP varies a couple of tenths of an inch Hg in cruise which seems normal.  The oil pressure is really stable. Fuel pressure seems to wander, but never out of the green, especially since JPI raised the FP upper limit to 8 psi as per the lycoming spec.  See the screencap from Savvy.   I don't recall who made the transducers, but they seem stable and up til now very reliable.  Nothing about this distracts me.

 

 

[carusoam]

Inviting @Skates97 to possibly bring his experience with data steadying devices and JPIs…

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

The MP varies a couple of tenths of an inch Hg in cruise which seems normal.  The oil pressure is really stable. Fuel pressure seems to wander, but never out of the green, especially since JPI raised the FP upper limit to 8 psi as per the lycoming spec.  See the screencap from Savvy.   I don't recall who made the transducers, but they seem stable and up til now very reliable.  Nothing about this distracts me

I have a snubber on the MP:

[Ragsf15e]

10 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I have a snubber on the MP:

Holy crap!  That’s how my fuel pressure and oil pressure look!  Oil pressure might bounce just a bit more.  Any ideas why or how to fix them?  My oil and fuel pressure use to be very stable.  Do you think it’s electrical interference, vibration, real fluctuations?  Do you care or you think it’s having too sensitive a gage?

[ArtVandelay]

Holy crap!  That’s how my fuel pressure and oil pressure look!  Oil pressure might bounce just a bit more.  Any ideas why or how to fix them?  My oil and fuel pressure use to be very stable.  Do you think it’s electrical interference, vibration, real fluctuations?  Do you care or you think it’s having too sensitive a gage?

The scale makes it look worse than it is, the fuel pressure has always varied so I figured that’s just a property of the fuel pump/system. If the scale started at zero it would not not look so bad. There’s no way I will add a snubber to the fuel/oil system.
So I don’t worry about it.

[0TreeLemur]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Holy crap!  That’s how my fuel pressure and oil pressure look!  Oil pressure might bounce just a bit more.  Any ideas why or how to fix them?  My oil and fuel pressure use to be very stable.  Do you think it’s electrical interference, vibration, real fluctuations?  Do you care or you think it’s having too sensitive a gage?

You nailed it- pressure transducers can measure high-frequency variations.  Snubbers help because they average variations out.  Collecting data a lower sample rate will help too.  But don't let variations bother you.

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

The scale makes it look worse than it is, the fuel pressure has always varied so I figured that’s just a property of the fuel pump/system. If the scale started at zero it would not not look so bad. There’s no way I will add a snubber to the fuel/oil system.
So I don’t worry about it.

The oil pressure plot that I posted before Tom's shows this.  Much less variation visible when zoomed out to a larger scale.   The oil pump is a positive displacement type, so it produces continuous pulses of flow/pressure, not continuous flow/pressure.

Manifold pressure varies continuously.  At least on my a/c the MP line is connected to the intake manifold on cyl #3.  Because flow passes through that point about 20% of the time, and there is no airflow in that intake tube the remaining 80% of the time, the pressure at that point naturally pulses.  A little wiggle in the reading is to be expected.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

The scale makes it look worse than it is, the fuel pressure has always varied so I figured that’s just a property of the fuel pump/system. If the scale started at zero it would not not look so bad. There’s no way I will add a snubber to the fuel/oil system.
So I don’t worry about it.

Im just curious now, but why wouldn’t you put a snubber on the fuel or oil pressure line?  JPI told me some require it, and I’ve heard many people like having a “reducer” or “snubber at the start of the oil pressure line to limit the volume of oil that can escape quickly if there’s a leak leak later in the line?