Washing airplane with water and a hose....good idea/bad idea?

[Mooney217RN]

I don't think I have ever read such nonsense.

First off, my background on this - I used to detail cars as a teen for spare $$$, so I know how to wash, wax and restore paint surfaces.  I had to wash my parent's cars, which to this day they still occasionally ask me to do because I am so thorough.

You will not damage your plane washing it with a hose and spray nozzle.  You should use car wash on it, lots of different brands out there.  I like Griot's the best, but you can use whatever you want.  Just don't be using dish detergent!  Meguiar's is also good.

I soak the plane in water.  They wash it with a sponge and car wash soap in a bucket.  I then rinse the plane getting all the car wash off it.  Then dry with a microfiber towel or two.

I also use speed shine and clay to remove contaminants at least twice a year, after which time I coat the plane with a caranuba wax (Best of Show).  It shines.  It also saves your paint.  And you WILL gain a few knots, yes, true.

On my E Model which I owned for about 20 years, I NEVER had to repaint it because I cleaned it and waxed it thoroughly and regularly.  In fact, when I sold it, it may have had original paint on it, which I had restored.

A clean plane is a happy plane, plus it gives you the opportunity to eyeball the aircraft in detail to see any potential discrepancies or problems.

[MikeOH]

Nothing wrong with water, but in four years of ownership I've been perfectly happy with the blue Wash-Wax-All product.

[Hank]

7 hours ago, EricJ said:

The very first step in the FAA annual check list is to thoroughly clean the aircraft.   I can't wait until after, since it is part of the annual.

 

I had one IA wash my Mooney at the end of annual--it was still wet when I arrived to pick it up. The stall horn was blaring as soon as I turned on the Master. His solution was to go out to the plane and pull the stall horn breaker (without telling me), saying that the switch was probably still wet. I noticed the breaker after flying home . . . .

[dzeleski]

12 hours ago, Mooney217RN said:

I also use speed shine and clay to remove contaminants at least twice a year, after which time I coat the plane with a caranuba wax (Best of Show).  It shines.  It also saves your paint.  And you WILL gain a few knots, yes, true.

 

Caranuba will not hold up for long, maybe 2 months if stored inside, days if stored outside or flown often. We have much better products these days. Meguiars hybrid ceramic wax or turtle waxes hybrid ceramic are nice and cheap and easily last 6 months, Adams ceramic spray coating while more expensive will last a little longer.

I personally like meguiars as I use it as a drying aid and remove a step entirely. I coat the plane two times per year on top, and 4 times a year on the belly due to oil and lead.

[201Steve]

I prefer waterless but sometimes it’s too much pollen or dirt, even living in the hangar. That said, I prefer it not to be rained on or water washed, but it also rinses any ocean breeze off so pros and cons. When I do wet wash, I’ve started using a lot of blue painters tape. Windows, pitot, static, too of door seals etc. takes about 15 mins but makes me feel good. 

[PeteMc]

I actually have zero leaks around the windows, doors, etc. from washing the plane.  No difference from flying though a heavy rain.  I do obviously tape off the static ports since I don't have the air stream to keep the rain away from the plane while in flight. 

But I've often thought about putting some sort of cover over the static ports while tied down to keep rain in high winds from being able to blow directly against the static ports.  I don't think I'd seal them (e.g. tape), but put something over them to prevent direct access to the ports.  (I tape the ports when I wash the plane.)

[carusoam]

There has been a discussion regarding covering the static ports…. As a usual outdoor storage detail…

Complete with how to make them obvious enough to not forget they are there… 

A good rain storm can put a lot of water into the static system while tied down outside…

Best regards,

-a-

[201Steve]

16 minutes ago, carusoam said:

A good rain storm can put a lot of water into the static system while tied down outside…

Yes it can, and it defies logic!!

[N201MKTurbo]

My poor plane has been parked outside for a couple of weeks. It was filthy. This morning I flew through fairly heavy rain for about 45 minutes all together. The plane is clean again.

It did strip some of the paint off of my new engine baffles.

Edited June 24, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[RLCarter]

I wet wash several times a year and fly it 30 minutes or more to dry it, I also Triflow all the moving parts when I get back from the “fly dry”. I use detailing spray in between wet washes,   @PeteMc and others I use 1” masking tape to cover the static ports, spool off a couple feet of tape and fold it back onto itself leaving 1” left to stick over the port. With a long tail the prop wash blows it off should you forget, also use a little alcohol to clean any adhesive residue from around the port. Also been known to fly through a light rain, harder on the prop paint, but sure is quick 

[DCarlton]

Some of us never have to wrestle with this issue.  I'm at one of those jet palace airports in SOCAL without a GA wash rack.  So... I pay a professional aircraft detailer to wash and wax it after the annual.  It last a few months.  I use quick detailer for as long as I can (until it gets too dirty).  Some times when it rains I'll rush to the airport with a rag and wipe down the wings.  I wish I could wash mine with a hose.  It's a good problem to have.  The county promised us a wash rack a decade ago.  Never happened. 

[carusoam]

3 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

Some of us never have to wrestle with this issue.  I'm at one of those jet palace airports in SOCAL without a GA wash rack.  So... I pay a professional aircraft detailer to wash and wax it after the annual.  It last a few months.  I use quick detailer for as long as I can (until it gets too dirty).  Some times when it rains I'll rush to the airport with a rag and wipe down the wings.  I wish I could wash mine with a hose.  It's a good problem to have.  The county promised us a wash rack a decade ago.  Never happened. 

In NJ… we used to have rain water collectors on the hangar roof… filling 50 gallon plastic barrels all over the place… with spigots.

It was possible to use some rain water to get a few gallons of water to the plane…. As Mooney pilots we know efficiency… 

Rinsing with limited amounts of water takes good planning…

Best regards,

-a-

[DCarlton]

2 minutes ago, carusoam said:

In NJ… we used to have rain water collectors on the hangar roof… filling 50 gallon plastic barrels all over the place… with spigots.

It was possible to use some rain water to get a few gallons of water to the plane…. As Mooney pilots we know efficiency… 

Rinsing with limited amounts of water takes good planning…

Best regards,

-a-

It's the environmental regulations that restrict creativity.  I've considered taking in five gallons of water at a time; until someone tells me to stop. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by DCarlton

[A64Pilot]

9 hours ago, PeteMc said:

I actually have zero leaks around the windows, doors, etc. from washing the plane.  No difference from flying though a heavy rain.  I do obviously tape off the static ports since I don't have the air stream to keep the rain away from the plane while in flight. 

But I've often thought about putting some sort of cover over the static ports while tied down to keep rain in high winds from being able to blow directly against the static ports.  I don't think I'd seal them (e.g. tape), but put something over them to prevent direct access to the ports.  (I tape the ports when I wash the plane.)

You could take plastic or rubber sheet and a couple of suction cups.

‘My Little Cessna’s fuel vent systems is two about 1/8” holes in each cap, to keep rain out I put toilet bowl plungers on top of them, looks silly but it works, sometimes a simple cover is all that’s needed.

‘I’m a bad guy and have never covered static ports or pitot tubes and have maintained fleets of 24 aircraft for a long time that we’re frequently washed and never had a problem. I wonder why?

I can’t imagine not being allowed to wash my car or aircraft, I washed my car in Germany and the Germans frowned on it, never really understood why, it’s not like your car has oil on it.

Nature deals with oil a lot better than we want to admit, even huge quantities of it, the Gulf of Mexico is thankfully not the sterile desert many said it would be.

Many Marina’s are certified “Green Marina’s” now and even a drop of oil or fuel discharged will get you into trouble, one drop will make a sheen, and the law specifically calls out a sheen.

So whenever it rained many Marina’s were covered in a sheen, it came from the parking lot as the parking lot was drained into the Marina, so to prevent that Environmental travesty, money was spent and they now drain into a storm drain and is carried “away” wherever away is, but the Greenies are all happy because their Marina is a green marina again.

So in California where your not allowed to wash your aircraft because of Environmental concerns unless your wash rack has an oil separator, do the parking lots and highways have oil separators? Why not?

US Army wash racks all have oil separators and in 20 years I have never seen oil removed from one, has anyone? I think the oil over time emulsifies and goes “away”  Environmental regs require one of course, but if oil is never removed, then obviously they aren’t doing any good? 

[N201MKTurbo]

We can’t spill any oil on the ground without risking a citation, but the government covers vast areas with asphalt, which is just heavy oil. 

[A64Pilot]

The GE T-701 used in the both the Blackhawk and the apache on shut down “blows its nose” meaning that it uses compressor bleed air to blowout the fuel manifold and blows about a half cup of fuel on the ground, prevents coking of the fuel system. Late 80’s I guess the EPA issued something and gave the Army 90 days to stop doing that, I retired in 02 and they were still blowing fuel on the ground every shutdown.

‘Every PT-6 that I am aware of drains fuel on shut down, so we installed an “EPA” tank, it’s about the size of a coke can and the theory is you drain the tank every so often, no one does of course so on shutdown after the EPA tank is full it comes out of the EPA tanks vent onto the ground

‘The GE H-80 engine can under normal operations leak 1 Liter of fuel an hour from the drain so the EPA tank woud be huge, GE wanted a complex tank with a float and electric pump to pump the drained fuel back into the fuel tank. I connected it to our header tank instead.

The Garrett blows it’s shutdown fuel into the combustion chamber so on shut down a Garrett gets a brief surge, neat  way to deal with it.

[PeteMc]

@A64Pilot  I always figured you really can't get all that much volume through that little static port.  But I was taught to cover it, but since it doesn't hurt to cover it, I'm being a good little drown.  As for your car, actually it will have some oil and a LOT of exhaust byproducts if you live or drive in a city a lot.  Maybe not so much on top, but in the wheel wells and underneath.  One car, not so much.  But add it all together and that's where people start talking about the pollutants. 

And agree on the oil separators.  I'll have to ask our airport Mgmt what the schedule is, just to see if they have an answer.  Granted, I'm not out there 27/7.  But I am out there on enough random days and hours that you would think I would have seen the truck once over the last 10 yrs or so that the oil separator has been there.

And as @N201MKTurbo pointed out...  Asphalt is a pretty heavy chemical.  So other than the runoff, if the oil hasn't already been absorbed, evaporated or mixed with dirt and blown away, there's not much of an issue.  But even so, if it makes it to a drain, we do have our oil separator!!

And don't get me wrong.  I'm all for not destroying the planet.  But I just don't agree with some of the "if I can't see it" or "if I yell about it" people that think that they're saving the world.  Not dumping tons of garbage in the ocean that cannot be broken down by the ocean, eventually developing a power source for cars that is maybe just as bad but "different" for cars, etc. are some of the things that even grade school kids get.

 

[A64Pilot]

There was a old chemical engineer saying that would drive people nuts today, and that’s the solution to pollution is dilution.

Back to the boat thing, in the US discharging toilet waste is considered horrible, terrible pollution, the fines are huge if your caught.

Go to the Bahamas, there isn’t a pump put station anywhere outside of the two major cities in the Bahamas, and yet the water is pristine. Why? because it’s diluted.

It’s educational to look at some of the really, really horrible pollution sites of WWII, like Truk Lagoon, and many other places. think every where how many barrels of heavy bunker oil was spilt? Even Hawaii, how long did it take to recover? It’s a bay, so it should have really been badly hit.

I’m not saying we should start polluting, but I do think a whole lot of it is “feel good” and doesn’t really accomplish much.

Like it’s OK to drive a huge inefficient SUV or new PU, because you know it will be electric, where really the emphasis should be on efficiency, it’s not difficult to drive a vehicle that’s four times as efficient, but no one wants to.

‘I’m not a fan of Elon Musk, but his Engineers initially got it right, the Tesla automobile is a pretty efficient vehicle, but the F-150 and whatever else is coming isn’t. Each of these things can use more electricity than a house.

Average US house electric consumption is 29 KW per day, the new F-150’s battery will be 115 KW or 150 KW if you get the extended range one, and remember it’s going to take probably at least 160 KW to charge a fully depleted 150 KW battery as nothing is 100% efficient.

How about the upcoming Hummer? 9,000 lbs? Yes, that’s what we need

https://jalopnik.com/gmc-hummer-ev-will-be-heaviest-electric-car-yet-1846919153

 

So not being allowed to wash your airplane is just plain silly, and I think an argument could easily be made that washing one frequently is better for the environment, as it should help with corrosion and making things last longer is better than buying new every few years.

Want to really be a friend of the Earth? keep your vehicle in top mechanical condition and keep it for 20 years or longer.

Edited June 24, 2021 by A64Pilot

[WilliamR]

13 hours ago, RLCarter said:

I wet wash several times a year and fly it 30 minutes or more to dry it, I also Triflow all the moving parts when I get back from the “fly dry”. I use detailing spray in between wet washes,   @PeteMc and others I use 1” masking tape to cover the static ports, spool off a couple feet of tape and fold it back onto itself leaving 1” left to stick over the port. With a long tail the prop wash blows it off should you forget, also use a little alcohol to clean any adhesive residue from around the port. Also been known to fly through a light rain, harder on the prop paint, but sure is quick 

Use blue or yellow painters tape, instead.  Never a good idea to use masking tape on nice paint.

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, WilliamR said:

Use blue or yellow painters tape, instead.  Never a good idea to use masking tape on nice paint.

Hmmmm.....   I have a roll of blue tape that I keep looking at wondering why I still have it and if I was ever going to need it.

THANKS!

 

[jlunseth]

Use a tape that does not have a gummy adhesive. The static ports are tiny enough, tape adhesive can plug the  port. That from one of my DPEs.

More than fifty years ago I flew into LAX with an uncle in a Baron. A couple hundred feet or so above the runway he radio'ed the tower and asked them to turn up the runway lights, please, he could not see the runway. They said they were up all the way. Orange smog. It was broad daylight, or as "broad" as daylight got back then. We are doing miles better now.

[RLCarter]

6 hours ago, WilliamR said:

Use blue or yellow painters tape, instead.  Never a good idea to use masking tape on nice paint.

I use blue and should have said painters tape, my bad. I’ve used painters tape for soooo long it’s just masking tape to me 

[A64Pilot]

If you think about it for a second, the name masking tape implies painting, what else do you mask?

So why is the blue less adhesive tape called painters tape, when it’s for masking?

I haven’t any of the plain masking tape myself, haven’t bought any for years, just the blue stuff. But if the blue is left on too long it’s real hard to remove too.

[Raymond J1]

I wash it with a container for water and two sponges (one for dry parts and the other for oily parts). It takes about 20 Gal of water. I don't use any solvents... This is not to steal the wax layer applied the previous time. After a new waxing, I shine with cotton cloths by hand. Apart from washing and before each flight, I pass the wings and empennages to the "nenette", a kind of antistatic broom very popular with us for vintage cars. Oh yes !... My partner, very jealous, hates to see me wash the plane, she says that all these caresses for this thing are unbearable.

https://www.nenette.fr/