JPI 930 vs 500 TXi with EIS

[TheStig]

Cost aside, I’m interested in pros/cons including weight, failure mode and such. I like the idea of a very clean panel which the 500TXi with engine monitoring would provide and one less screen in the panel. 

What are some other perspectives?

[StevenL757]

Honestly, I considered the EIS TXi when I did my upgrade, but two things kept me from moving to it...

• I already had an EDM-900, and wanted the larger space of the 930, so I upgraded
• If your G500TXi craps out, it will take your engine data with it

My EDM900 and 930 have each worked flawlessly in over 1200 hours of operation.  Same of my TXi, et al.

[Ragsf15e]

I have a 930 in my panel and it has worked well.  Personally, I’d prefer a Garmin eis, but not so much I’m going to change.  The jpi is fine, but their customer service is marginal and there are lots of little idiosyncrasies with their products that affect some of us.  I’ve spent a lit of time troubleshooting wobbly oil pressure, manifold pressure, etc.  They just refer you to an engineering company website and tell you to buy a snubber.  I want to believe Garmin has more time and money to sort out the little stuff.

It would give me pause to have everything on one screen, but then if you have 2, there are twice as many chances for one of them to go.  
 

Any chance you’d do a g3x 7” as a dedicated eis/mfd?

[TheStig]

A G3X 7" is not a bad idea either. Not sure if it could serve as a backup to the Txi if that failed but might not need that. Interesting for sure.

Current plan is to use a GI-275 as a backup AI (like @StevenL757) . I don't know if it can work as a backup to the TXi or if it have to be setup that way to begin with. I think it comes as an EIS variant OR nav OR AI not with a toggle. If so, there would have to be 2 of them, one for AI and the other as EIS.

Currently the G3X is backordered and have a long wait time or so I have heard...

 

[TheStig]

55 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Honestly, I considered the EIS TXi when I did my upgrade, but two things kept me from moving to it...

• I already had an EDM-900, and wanted the larger space of the 930, so I upgraded
• If your G500TXi craps out, it will take your engine data with it

My EDM900 and 930 have each worked flawlessly in over 1200 hours of operation.  Same of my TXi, et al.

This is a lot like the panel I am having quoted. I like the GI-275 over the G5 which many have as backup. I am wondering if there is a weight penalty going with the GI-275 over G5 and the G5 has great battery backup which I don't believe the GI-275 has. However, there biggest thing is whether or not you need as much of an instrument as the GI-275 has to offer over a G5. I'm reading up on it as much as I can... Might be something else that drives the decision I am unaware of.

[StevenL757]

The GI275 does indeed have a battery backup.  The 275 is far superior over the G5 in nearly every aspect (although the G5 has longer battery life, but in reality, how many people need so much more battery life over what the GI275 offers in order to get your airplane down safely, should the need arise?).

It should be a no-brainer, given how nominal the cost delta is of the 275 over the G5.  My shop - who has done several dozen GI275 installs touts it as a "TXi in a tube"...meaning, it has the same functionality (including ADAHRS and SynVis availability to name a few) as the G500TXi display.  It's that capable.

[StevenL757]

51 minutes ago, TheStig said:

Current plan is to use a GI-275 as a backup AI (like @StevenL757) . I don't know if it can work as a backup to the TXi or if it have to be setup that way to begin with. I think it comes as an EIS variant OR nav OR AI not with a toggle. If so, there would have to be 2 of them, one for AI and the other as EIS.

Currently the G3X is backordered and have a long wait time or so I have heard...

Will you be installing a GFC500 autopilot?  If so, the GI275 will drive the AP, and you can position it as a standby ADI.  The 275 will display NAV information as well as serve as an ADI, but my understanding is it won't do EIS as well...you'd need a separate display (JPI, separate 275 acting as EIS, G500TXi, or G3X Touch).

Personally, my recommendation would be (as long as you're re-doing the whole panel), price out the 500TXi over the G3X.  So much more functionality and interoperability between other components.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, TheStig said:

A G3X 7" is not a bad idea either. Not sure if it could serve as a backup to the Txi if that failed but might not need that. Interesting for sure.

Current plan is to use a GI-275 as a backup AI (like @StevenL757) . I don't know if it can work as a backup to the TXi or if it have to be setup that way to begin with. I think it comes as an EIS variant OR nav OR AI not with a toggle. If so, there would have to be 2 of them, one for AI and the other as EIS.

Currently the G3X is backordered and have a long wait time or so I have heard...

 

Yes, just to be clear, you will still need a -275 or G5 as a backup.  G3x doesn’t have battery backup, so it would only serve as eis/mfd in that case.

[toto]

I didn’t see this mentioned above, but the Garmin EIS will display on an iPad running Garmin Pilot. So theoretically if the LCD crapped out on either a G3X or a G500txi, you could still see engine instruments on your iPad. 

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

The 275 will display NAV information as well as serve as an ADI, but my understanding is it won't do EIS as well...you'd need a separate display (JPI, separate 275 acting as EIS, G500TXi, or G3X Touch).

Yes, this is correct, I verified this with Garmin.  If the GI-275 is an EIS, it is only an EIS.  It won't even drive the GFC-500 while being an EIS.

[carusoam]

The Garmin EIS has some impressive data logging capability....

Including flight data 

Either way...  EI, JPI, or bigG... you are going to want a big screen if you can to show all your data without scrolling through pages....

See Don Kaye’s panel for the EI MVP....

Last detail prior to ordering... Make sure the data rate is set for about collecting data every second...

Some of the older units are stuck on six seconds... too slow for good run-up data...

Best regards,

-a-

[Z W]

Before our panel job, we had a very old 930 that was starting to fail intermittently.  We chose to remove it and go with the 500TXi, and for redundancy, kept the factory RPM and MP gauges on the far right side of the panel.  Thing I like most about it is having your EIS right in front of you on the 500TXi.  Your entire scan is within that 10" frame.  Great for approaches and changing power settings while in the soup or under the hood.  It's a very clean setup and I would do it that way again.

[TheStig]

7 hours ago, Zane Williams said:

Before our panel job, we had a very old 930 that was starting to fail intermittently.  We chose to remove it and go with the 500TXi, and for redundancy, kept the factory RPM and MP gauges on the far right side of the panel.  Thing I like most about it is having your EIS right in front of you on the 500TXi.  Your entire scan is within that 10" frame.  Great for approaches and changing power settings while in the soup or under the hood.  It's a very clean setup and I would do it that way again.

This is what I see as the greatest benefit, not having to look under yoke (current position of JPI 700), or over to the right where it would be possible to fit in the 930 screen. Doing the split screen: map/MFD, PFD, EIS right in front is pretty terrific. Should it fail and I am left with using the backup GI-275 for the AI/speed/alt to get on the ground, I am pretty comfortable I would be able to manage the engine by sound and habit. Going down is mostly about not shock cooling, bringing the mixture in... and avoiding the MPs getting too high. If I had to, I think I could manage that. Not sure but if you can grab data from the TXi onto iPad, you have some numbers like fuel to look at as you make your way to the ground...

Swapping KFC150 with GFC will come later. KFC 150 is rock solid and can be driven by GI-275 or TXi and setup with it's own Garmin controls as well.  

[TheStig]

20 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

Yes, this is correct, I verified this with Garmin.  If the GI-275 is an EIS, it is only an EIS.  It won't even drive the GFC-500 while being an EIS.

They are not too pricey but I don't know if it makes sense to have 2 GI-275s just to have redundancy for EIS. Again, I think I could manage to come down by sound and feel if I had to. 

[Niko182]

I had a 900 and now have the G3X EIS. I personally like the G3X EIS more. I think I just like the simplicity. It's just right in front of me. It gives me all the info I need and If I want more detail, I can touch the EIS section, and more information will pop up. Based on what people are saying about the TXI vs the G3X EIS, I believe the G3X has a better EIS out of the 2.

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, TheStig said:

They are not too pricey but I don't know if it makes sense to have 2 GI-275s just to have redundancy for EIS. Again, I think I could manage to come down by sound and feel if I had to. 

Agreed, not sure you can even get redundancy on EIS, I didn't ask but I haven't seen it in the manual.

[jlunseth]

The 930 is an excellent unit. I put mine in around 1500 hours ago. The current unit is not the same as the one I originally installed, when I installed CiES senders I sent the 930 in so it could receive from the new senders and they either gave me a new unit or substantially changed the first one. I had a minor problem for awhile after getting the second unit, with the autodim taking the unit to black, but that was resolved by JPI. I had to replace the waterwheel at one point. Other than that, I can't think of an issue in quite a few hours of very accurate service. Certainly save wear and tear on the engine because the pilot knows just exactly what is going on.

[NJMac]

I'm commiting to a new panel and dealing with these same decisions.  I'm leaning towards the 930 right above my center yoke so that a failed PFD doesn't take the engine monitoring with it too.  

Additionally, when talking with a prospective shop, they said the Garmin is more difficult to troubleshoot if there are any issues than a JPI since there is more going on.  

[JohnB]

I have an EIS with my G500 Txi and I went through the same angst about eliminating my JPI which I had for years, and Garmin will not allow you to have any other redundant engine instrument if you have an EIS. There are more numbers with the JPI, but you can configure your EIS to display most all numbers (Except CO level if you have a CO detector), and you can set warning levels which will bllnk and turn color right in front of you so you can correct any engine adjustment without having to interpolate a number or look at a distant screen. Your detailed engine data downloads into Garmin Pilot (most of the time) or you can manually download them, just like the JPI. 

 

So I would give a thumbs up to the EIS integrated system, with the only caveat being I wish Garmin Txi would allow a Carbon Monoxide RS232 port input if you have a CO detector, as they have on pretty much EVERY other engine detection system out there (JPI,  EI etc)