For those that tie down their aircraft...

[AlexLev]

I'm potentially moving to the SoCal area near Long Beach later this year...and I am nervous of not being able to afford a hangar anymore like I do out in Western New York.

So I'm curious for those that tie down, how damaging is it to the aircraft in general? Corrosion? Paint? What can be done to minimize this damage?

I'm looking at moving in the Long Beach area, which is by the Pacific Ocean too - is this a definitive no-no for keeping a plane outside? I assume the nice paint job I have may wear pretty soon, so I might look into budgeting for a paint job or something sooner than later -- what other considerations to have?

[G-SLOT]

In many places, hangarage is either non existent, subject to a waiting list that moves at a glacial pace or prohibitively expensive. Plenty of aircraft are kept outside and, apart from paint looking a bit tired, seem not much worse for wear. I would invest in a good cockpit/fuselage/engine cover and be aware of (and regularly clean) bird mess but, more important than anything, fly it often. You can also get wing and tail covers but they are a real pain to put on and take off. 

[Niko182]

37 minutes ago, AlexLev said:

I'm potentially moving to the SoCal area near Long Beach later this year...and I am nervous of not being able to afford a hangar anymore like I do out in Western New York.

So I'm curious for those that tie down, how damaging is it to the aircraft in general? Corrosion? Paint? What can be done to minimize this damage?

I'm looking at moving in the Long Beach area, which is by the Pacific Ocean too - is this a definitive no-no for keeping a plane outside? I assume the nice paint job I have may wear pretty soon, so I might look into budgeting for a paint job or something sooner than later -- what other considerations to have?

I'm currently based at KSNA which is a couple miles south of KLGB. A hangar here is about 1100 dollars a month so I tie down. The plane gets dirty with dust, but the effects of it sitting outside haven't been terrible. I understand that it's better for a Mooney to be in a hangar, but a with a tie down being 225 vs a hangar being 1100 dollars, I can go get the aircraft painted every 2 and a half years at a high quality shop and spend 25K on one. Even the Acclaim Ultra on the field sits outside. Corrosion isn't too big of an issue because even though we are close to salt water, the air is very dry up here. On the hot days, there is absolutely no humidity. It rains maybe 10 times a year. If you really want a hangar, you can look at KFUL which might not be much further than KLGB based on where you live, however I live south of John Wayne, and with the awful traffic, going to Fullerton isn't worthwhile. I believe @Skates97 is based at Fullerton so he might have a cost for a hangar at Fullerton. Torrance might also be worthwhile. I'd guess somewhere around 400 to 600 dollars a month for Fullerton.

[Skates97]

I pay $464 for a T-Hangar at KFUL, but the waiting list I think is in the 12-18 month range right now. I have a friend that has been on it for at least 6 months and hasn't moved up on the list at all...

[LANCECASPER]

47 minutes ago, AlexLev said:

I'm potentially moving to the SoCal area near Long Beach later this year...and I am nervous of not being able to afford a hangar anymore like I do out in Western New York.

So I'm curious for those that tie down, how damaging is it to the aircraft in general? Corrosion? Paint? What can be done to minimize this damage?

I'm looking at moving in the Long Beach area, which is by the Pacific Ocean too - is this a definitive no-no for keeping a plane outside? I assume the nice paint job I have may wear pretty soon, so I might look into budgeting for a paint job or something sooner than later -- what other considerations to have?

Get to know people in the aviation community out there. 20+ years ago there was no hangar space in San Antonio but in getting to know a few people in the Mooney community Tim Mott found me a place in a community hangar and at least I was able to keep it inside. The lists aren't very productive. Thinking outside the box and even approaching businesses on the field about renting a spot in one of their hangars is a possibility too. There are a lot of fields out there, you'll find something if you work at it.

[dzeleski]

In a place like CA it wont be anywhere near as bad as a place like NY near the coasts especially. That being said your paint will fade if not taken care of, it will need to be cleaned/coated often.

I was briefly tied down outside and I was going through triflow like crazy because of the rain, but again that probably isnt a problem in many parts of CA.

Make sure you have a cover or window shades to protect your seats and avionics from direct sunlight. If you have leather make sure you condition and protect them as well.

[AlexLev]

8 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Get to know people in the aviation community out there. 20+ years ago there was no hangar space in San Antonio but in getting to know a few people in the Mooney community Tim Mott found me a place in a community hangar and at least I was able to keep it inside. The lists aren't very productive. Thinking outside the box and even approaching businesses on the field about renting a spot in one of their hangars is a possibility too. There are a lot of fields out there, you'll find something if you work at it.

Thanks. I've been at it. I had a few leads and someone who seemed willing to negotiate with me, but recently went radio silent, but I'm definitely going to keep working on it!

[AlexLev]

14 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I'm currently based at KSNA which is a couple miles south of KLGB. A hangar here is about 1100 dollars a month so I tie down. The plane gets dirty with dust, but the effects of it sitting outside haven't been terrible. I understand that it's better for a Mooney to be in a hangar, but a with a tie down being 225 vs a hangar being 1100 dollars, I can go get the aircraft painted every 2 and a half years at a high quality shop and spend 25K on one. Even the Acclaim Ultra on the field sits outside. Corrosion isn't too big of an issue because even though we are close to salt water, the air is very dry up here. On the hot days, there is absolutely no humidity. It rains maybe 10 times a year. If you really want a hangar, you can look at KFUL which might not be much further than KLGB based on where you live, however I live south of John Wayne, and with the awful traffic, going to Fullerton isn't worthwhile. I believe @Skates97 is based at Fullerton so he might have a cost for a hangar at Fullerton. Torrance might also be worthwhile. I'd guess somewhere around 400 to 600 dollars a month for Fullerton.

Thank you! Yeah, no way could I do 1100/mo. I found a hangar for 350/month but like 1.5hours away -- and I typically can average a couple hundred hours per year, so if it's that far away, I'm sure it'd be more of a hangar queen which wouldn't be good.

[A64Pilot]

In my search for a good Mooney I ran into what looked pretty ideal, mid 80’’s J Model, mid time engine, paint 8 or so years old, interior a couple of years old, good avionics stack

‘It was in Naples Fl, so we drove down there and on walking up to it I knew it was a problem. He had the whole thing covered it looked like, wing covers and all.

Stuck my head under the gear and there were holes eaten through the wheel wells from corrosion.

‘Airplane was gone, no way I would sign that thing off as airworthy. It has been there for 10 years apparently tied down the whole time.

IfI had a good airplane I’d find the closest hanger I could, if that was a few hours drive I’d live with it. I’d put myself on whatever list I could locally of course, but I’d put my aircraft away in a hanger somewhere else until one came available close by. If it were pretty far away, I’d pickle the engine and just wait, but I wouldn’t tie down outside, especially not near the Ocean.

‘Essentially it’s an accelerated aging process, most of our aircraft are pretty old, it would be different if it were like a car and you bought a new one every few years, but aircraft are supposed to last decades, and if your like me a new one is a pipe dream.

[Niko182]

Just now, AlexLev said:

Thank you! Yeah, no way could I do 1100/mo. I found a hangar for 350/month but like 1.5hours away -- and I typically can average a couple hundred hours per year, so if it's that far away, I'm sure it'd be more of a hangar queen which wouldn't be good.

I presume the hangar you found for 350 was at cable?

[AlexLev]

12 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I presume the hangar you found for 350 was at cable?

WHP and Brackett Field both had one for 350/mo.

[Jeph357]

I have a couple buddies at torrance KTOA

I believe they are about $500mo 

[RobertGary1]

Been outside for over 20 years. Still have the original paint job. It’s ok not terrible. Never corrosion in California unless you’re right on the beach. I have a bruces cover. No worries. 
I know more people with issues being in hangers due to the dark quiet place enjoyed by rodents. 

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

In my search for a good Mooney I ran into what looked pretty ideal, mid 80’’s J Model, mid time engine, paint 8 or so years old, interior a couple of years old, good avionics stack

‘It was in Naples Fl, so we drove down there and on walking up to it I knew it was a problem. He had the whole thing covered it looked like, wing covers and all.

Stuck my head under the gear and there were holes eaten through the wheel wells from corrosion.

‘Airplane was gone, no way I would sign that thing off as airworthy. It has been there for 10 years apparently tied down the whole time.

IfI had a good airplane I’d find the closest hanger I could, if that was a few hours drive I’d live with it. I’d put myself on whatever list I could locally of course, but I’d put my aircraft away in a hanger somewhere else until one came available close by. If it were pretty far away, I’d pickle the engine and just wait, but I wouldn’t tie down outside, especially not near the Ocean.

‘Essentially it’s an accelerated aging process, most of our aircraft are pretty old, it would be different if it were like a car and you bought a new one every few years, but aircraft are supposed to last decades, and if your like me a new one is a pipe dream.

Or just leave Florida and come to California. We have planes out here that have been outside for 50 years and fly regularly. No issues at all. 

[Niko182]

2 hours ago, AlexLev said:

WHP and Brackett Field both had one for 350/mo.

You just need to also understand that although those are an hour and a half away, that is also with no traffic. Traffic around LA can become pretty brutal, hence I'd personally advise against that option.

[dogbocks]

I live in the Bay Area and keep my airplane outside due to a 10+ year waiting list for any hangar with is a reasonable drive away. My airplane is about 3.5 miles from the beach. At the same airport, there is a new carbon cub on the ramp, several other cloth airplanes, a Cirrus jet and you can find many, many brand new Cirrus's. I am sure in SoCal there are countless new Cirrus on ramps. 

The corrosion you need to worry about here is nothing compared to the gulf area of the US. Also it basically never rains, is never humid and the wx is always mild. The main thing is my airplane is just always super dirty, which gets annoying, but not the worst to deal with. 

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

About 15 years ago I purchased a 1966 PA28-180 that had been based in the LA area since new; always tied down outside.  I bought it out of Torrance and flew it back home to Florida.  Never again.  After about a year and a half of fighting corrosion issues I traded it to a broker in Denver for my previous always-hangared and corrosion-free M20J and never looked back.   I’m sure that airplane is still flying today and will be for many years to come, but the long term damage from tying down outside goes far beyond the paint.  Even in California and especially so near both the coast and a major population center.

@A64Pilotsaid it well.  It’s an accelerated aging process.   If well maintained and regularly flown the plane still might last longer than you do, but all else being equal it won’t last as long as one that has been stored inside.  Not even close.  It is a real shame when an always-hangared bird gets relegated to the ramp, but such is life and sometimes it is just unavoidable.  All you can do is double down on your corrosion mitigation efforts, fly the plane regularly, and try not to let the purely cosmetic effects bother you.  

There are so many 60’s era planes outside here and never heard of any serious corrosion on any. At least a dozen I know the owners. Asked the Mooney service center once and they said they hadn’t seen spar corrosion on local planes. 
maybe your Piper had lives elsewhere at some point 

[carusoam]

Plan on getting a good cover...

Keeps the interior dry...

Keeps the sun out...

Keeps the prying eyes away...

Get hangar when able...

My M20C lived outdoors for 40years... that I know of...

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

I kept my first motorcycle outside my apartment in LaJolla. The chromed exhaust was corroded in a month.  I would never keep an airplane I cared about outside near the sea.

[Warren]

Keep it as far from the ocean as possible to minimize corrosion.

Get a good cover to keep sun out of the interior.

If the paint is good, get a ceramic coating done -- it will protect it from damage quite well and just need the coating touched up every couple of years.

Good luck with the move and finding space.

[AlexLev]

20 hours ago, Warren said:

Keep it as far from the ocean as possible to minimize corrosion.

Get a good cover to keep sun out of the interior.

If the paint is good, get a ceramic coating done -- it will protect it from damage quite well and just need the coating touched up every couple of years.

Good luck with the move and finding space.

Thank you all for the good advice!

[Utah20Gflyer]

A good cover is probably the first step.  Second, keep some auto paint detailer spray with you and make sure to clean bird droppings and whatever else off the plane anytime you are around it.  Clean bugs off the leading edges of your wings, prop and cowling after every flight.  If you do it immediately the bugs come off really easily and it only takes a couple minutes.   The auto detailer clears off the bugs quickly and also leaves a protective coating which is especially important since the plane is out in the elements full time.   In general if you are outside you will need to spend much more time cleaning the plane than if you hanger it.  

Keep an eye out for birds and rodents taking up residence in your aircraft. The other day I cleaned half a buckets worth of nesting material out of my tail that a bird deposited there over the course of 2 days after the rag I use to keep birds out disappeared.  

Keep the proper lubricants handy and use them regularly. I lube all the flight control joints probably at least every other week.  

Clean, polish, lubricate

Clean, polish, lubricate

Thats your life if you park it outside and want to keep it looking nice.  I'd love to get a hanger to decrease the workload but no hangers available where I'm at.  

The Mooney tied down next to mine gets no love and it is just slowly wasting away.  Never gets cleaned, polished or lubricated.  Has a bird nest in the tail with chirping chicks in it.  Bird crap every where.   Definitely don't do that, just sad to see. Apparently it's for sale but I'm not sure who would buy it for what they are asking.    

 

 

 

 

[Bolter]

I was parked outside at WHP and then FUL for 8 years.  Visible impact on the paint that you can see as a line where the cover stopped.  Never an issue for corrosion.

Moved to Seattle, got a hangar as soon as I could :-)

-dan

[steingar]

There is a member here who has had his Mooney out of doors in Ohio for at least a decade, possibly longer.  Sounds like a pain, but saved enough money that his aircraft now sports a couple G5's and a new paint job.

[PT20J]

Catalyzed polyurethane paint is pretty tough. How well it holds up depends a lot on the quality of the paint job. Some years, Mooney sprayed it on pretty thin.

Personally, I’d be more concerned about the interior. All that ABS plastic is pretty thin and with age, heat and UV it becomes brittle and yellows and cracks. A good cover will do a lot to slow the the process

Skip.