AeroCruze 100 Update

[Baker Avionics]

5 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

Yeah I’ll pass on that idea. Do you (or anyone else) know if the S-Tec 30 will track a heading bug off the Skyview? Maybe @Baker Avionicsmight know.

No it will not as the STec30 is an analog system and the only type of AP that the SkyView can control is digital.  

[craigsteffen]

On 6/1/2021 at 10:59 PM, Baker Avionics said:

Yeah, you're right, maybe I should wait until it is already done and not update anyone. So sorry. The thing is, this is an informative forum to try and help and gtlet news out when we find out and our information is only as good as the people or company giving it to us. 

Thank you for the report.  It *is* useful to hear what shops are being told.  And believe me, us Mooney owners are interested and cautiously interested.  

But understand that Bendix/King for the last year and change and TruTrak for at least two years before that have been completely unwavering in stating "we almost have it certified; it will be available in six months".  They would say that no matter what.  They said it in these forums, and I have chains of emails of the same claims.  So yes, I'm hopeful too, but I'm going to stay jaded until I hear the words "available for order, what's your model and serial number?".  

The only reason I'm not completely angry and disillusioned is that the story *sort of* changed a bit when BK took over the product.  When I talked to Bendix-King last fall, they said they were deciding between Mooneys and some other model to pursue pursue certification for internally.  Once I got over my rage about realizing that TruTrak was basically flat-out lying the whole time, I realized that possibly this was different in that they were telling me slightly real (if incomplete) information.  Later in the winter, I talked to them again, and they said that the Mooney certification had actually be contracted out to an external company and they expected it would take six months, and it would be "done" round about June.  I talked to them earlier this spring, and targetting in June hadn't changed.  

Now if I talked to them at Oshkosh at they say "we'll have it in six months" I'm going to be sad and angry all over again.  

Let's also be very careful and understand that finishing the paperwork is not the only thing that has to happen.  They have to be able to produce product.  There's a video by "Jimmy's world" on YouTube about him waiting for months for an AeroCruze (for an airframe that it's already certified for) and not being able the get it because it wasn't available.  

So I think questions we need to ask of Bendix-King (and any manufacturer of a new thing) are: 

"How long do you expect the STC to take from right now?"

"What are the steps that need to happen between that and having availability of actual certified airframe-specific install kits?"

Finally: "From the point that you deliver the first install kit, how long will it take at your current unit production rate to fulfill all of the back-orders for that product so that the kits will start to be immediately available?"

If someone can answer those questions with a straight face and more detail than "it'll be available in six months" maybe I'll hold out a bit of hope.  

[MBDiagMan]

I am SO glad that about six months after being fed the ferry tale in late 2018 that I went ahead and fixed my PC.  At least I have SOMETHING.  Had I continued to be so gullible as to believe them I would still be completely hand flying this beast. The PC does help considerably.  So glad I didn’t continue to drink the Koolaid.

[aviatoreb]

12 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

I am SO glad that about six months after being fed the ferry tale in late 2018 that I went ahead and fixed my PC.  At least I have SOMETHING.  Had I continued to be so gullible as to believe them I would still be completely hand flying this beast. The PC does help considerably.  So glad I didn’t continue to drink the Koolaid.

That's my philosophy generally when it comes to aviation promises and vaporware.  I only make maintenance and upgrade plans based on what is available to purchase today.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

That's my philosophy generally when it comes to aviation promises and vaporware.  I only make maintenance and upgrade plans based on what is available to purchase today.

But this item DOES EXIST!! It just lacks an STC for our planes.

Wonder if we can put it in under NORSEE as a replacement for the Brittain units?

[aviatoreb]

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

But this item DOES EXIST!! It just lacks an STC for our planes.

Wonder if we can put it in under NORSEE as a replacement for the Brittain units?

The STC does not exist.  That is what I mean.  It does not exist as something any of us can buy and install today.  As for my own sanity I would not change my plans in anyway counting on a STC "next quarter" for any aviation product.

[cliffy]

Autopilots are specifically  INCLUDED in what can qualify under NORSEE

Its the paperwork that needs to be done

Now whether or not  a manufacturer will spend the money to qualify their article under NORSEE  is another matter

Its beyond me why one would not go that route rather than full STC

I must be missing something

[Hank]

7 hours ago, cliffy said:

Autopilots are specifically  INCLUDED in what can qualify under NORSEE

Its the paperwork that needs to be done

Now whether or not  a manufacturer will spend the money to qualify their article under NORSEE  is another matter

Its beyond me why one would not go that route rather than full STC

I must be missing something

You mean I can't install it under NORSEE on my own, with my IA?

[cliffy]

41 minutes ago, Hank said:

You mean I can't install it under NORSEE on my own, with my IA?

Here's the approval process-

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgPolicy.nsf/0/1790b02f1833357486257f9200592110/$FILE/PS-AIR-21.8-1602.pdf

Here's a list of NORSEE approved equipment-

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/norsee/

[carusoam]

If Rosen sun visors can get on the Norsee list…

I think a pair of snails, intercoolers, assorted tubes, and the cowl off an Acclaim… has all the documentation required for my next project… 

If I encounter unknown icing conditions on an IFR flight over mountains… and my route to safety is to climb above the clouds…. 
 

I would greatly appreciate having that TN system when that occurs…

PP dreams only, not seriously considering using Norsee to avoid getting an STC for a system that is fully designed and documented by Mooney for an airframe that is only different by its name…

Best regards,

-a-

[MBDiagMan]

Wow!  Here we are almost July and still, nothing but crickets!

[donkaye]

When Bendix King was Bendix King so many years ago, I remember the service was great and the products were always leading edge.  The KLN 90B is a great example.  I used it for 20 satisfied years.  They totally fell apart after their management failed to take the advice of a couple of their engineers who later had the foresight to start a competing Company, Garmin.

I can't think of one GA product that has successfully come out of BK since that time.  Why would anyone believe a thing that came out of a mouth of anyone who worked there?

In my opinion, if you want an autopilot with all the modern bells and whistles before you are too old to fly, then your choices are limited to one or two vendors who actually have product "off the shelf" now.

I imagine, if you consider the discounted cash value of money, that by the time any of these vaporware companies have a "real" product out on the market for a Mooney, the price of the autopilots available today will look pretty reasonable.

[ilovecornfields]

@Hyett6420, I like the cut of your jib! And your use of anachronisms.

 

[canamex]

Dragging up an old thread...

Just saw the Aerocruze 100 advertised for sale on Aircraft Spruce's website along with a funny STC request form at the bottom. In the description it says (Approval pending) which seems to indicate that the STC authorization hasn't yet been handed down.

Once I put the product in-basket it shows that there's no stock in any of their locations. Is it just me or does it seem odd that AS will take my money for a product which isn't yet approved?

[carusoam]

3 hours ago, canamex said:

or does it seem odd that AS will take my money for a product which isn't yet approved?

Very few avionics projects actually make it to market with an STC that you specifically need….

Paying up front, at a discount, with a sliding due date…. Is the norm.

There is one company with a record of meeting expectations… Avidyne.

 

There is another company in the complete opposite bin.

 

People new to plane ownership often get caught in the frenzy…

If tight on funds… don’t be first in line for things that look too good to be true…

The bleeding edge is often not quite ready with some things either hardware related or software related… that may never get updated…

 

so…  
Odd, yes.  

Wishful thinking, yes.  

Possibility of a good outcome, maybe.

Will you be happy with the risk/reward, only you can make that decision…

PP thoughts only, I was really interested in the KSN770 to add WAAS to my all BK panel….The VGA LoDef graphics, and unfinished GUI made it DOA… 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[EricJ]

13 hours ago, canamex said:

Dragging up an old thread...

Just saw the Aerocruze 100 advertised for sale on Aircraft Spruce's website along with a funny STC request form at the bottom. In the description it says (Approval pending) which seems to indicate that the STC authorization hasn't yet been handed down.

Once I put the product in-basket it shows that there's no stock in any of their locations. Is it just me or does it seem odd that AS will take my money for a product which isn't yet approved?

I suspect what's happening is they're providing a means for pre-order for when it does become available.   This may also help AS/BK see how many are pending and provide an input for judging production requirements.

 

[canamex]

Coming from a world of consumer electronics (at least more mass market ones) their strategy doesn't make sense to me. Why would I give an interest free loan to Aircraft Spruce on the chance that the product becomes available? Make it a $100 deposit and I'm all in. 

On 8/19/2021 at 6:39 AM, carusoam said:

People new to plane ownership often get caught in the frenzy…

You might have nailed it right on the head there...

What I don't understand is their strategy. I've done some work for mass market consumer goods and the blueprint is clear: charge an amount of money for pre-order which doesn't hurt too much and is used to gauge interest. I'm not going to give Aircraft Spruce (nor any other company) a $5k interest-free loan on the chance this thing does come out.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, canamex said:

Coming from a world of consumer electronics (at least more mass market ones) their strategy doesn't make sense to me. Why would I give an interest free loan to Aircraft Spruce on the chance that the product becomes available? Make it a $100 deposit and I'm all in. 

You might have nailed it right on the head there...

What I don't understand is their strategy. I've done some work for mass market consumer goods and the blueprint is clear: charge an amount of money for pre-order which doesn't hurt too much and is used to gauge interest. I'm not going to give Aircraft Spruce (nor any other company) a $5k interest-free loan on the chance this thing does come out.

Like many vendors for such things, they probably wouldn't charge your card until it ships.   I bought a $400 VR from aircraftspruce a while ago and it was back ordered and didn't ship for a couple months after the order.   They charged my card when the part became available.

[canamex]

@EricJ good to know, thanks!

[cliffy]

I'm betting 200+ units sold in the first 60 days after certification

Of course I think I said the same thing 2 years ago  :-)

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, canamex said:

I'm not going to give Aircraft Spruce (nor any other company) a $5k interest-free loan on the chance this thing does come out.

You won't need to, they charge the card the day it ships.

[Rotorhead]

Soooo...any updates??

[Baker Avionics]

12 hours ago, Rotorhead said:

Soooo...any updates??

BK Rep hasn't answered any of my emails. So NOPE!!

 

[cliffy]

As I mentioned before-

The BIG money for BK is not in Mooneys Its drones!

Edited February 12, 2022 by cliffy

[Lionudakis]

I spoke to BK regarding another AP install I'm in the middle of, and just had to ask.. He said its in the FAA's hands waiting on approval.  I still think its not a real priority to the FAA, they have bigger priorities right now