Garmin dual G5 or?

[dzeleski]

My J goes in for a second G5 and a GFC 500 in 30 days. There are two reasons I decided to go with the G5 over the 275.
1) Backup battery on the 275 is only a 60 min battery, the G5 is 4 hours
2) The round screen causes the tapes to be warped and clutters the screen too much imo

 

[sdflysurf]

I just spoke with Garmin - the fee for the permission letter would be $800 per INSTALL (so that would cover both G5s) but that is the Customer Price, so the Garmin dealer price is ???  - Also I spoke to someone with a Garmin Dealership and they said that the dealer has access to all of that stuff online and he has never registered something like that so he thinks that the $800 is just a charge to print documents from the Garmin dealer access area for NON Garmin dealers installing.  He said for that type of component he has never done anything further than printing the STC and documents related to the 337 Form.  So if I am working with a Garmin dealer to do it it won't be any further charge.

Sound about right?

[sdflysurf]

46 minutes ago, dzeleski said:

My J goes in for a second G5 and a GFC 500 in 30 days. There are two reasons I decided to go with the G5 over the 275.
1) Backup battery on the 275 is only a 60 min battery, the G5 is 4 hours
2) The round screen causes the tapes to be warped and clutters the screen too much imo

 

I think those are two good reasons for me to stay with the G5 and put some of the extra money into the interior.

I am thinking I will get all of the basic AI and HSI features - and then use my IPAD (which I already use 90% of the time) for Synthetic vision, terrain, weather, traffic, etc.

As of this morning I think I have all of my questions answered except for making sure it can flush mount with the current panel design and any autopilot questions (but I don't have an autopilot so I can save that for another day).

[OR75]

16 minutes ago, sdflysurf said:

I just spoke with Garmin - the fee for the permission letter would be $800 per INSTALL (so that would cover both G5s) but that is the Customer Price, so the Garmin dealer price is ???  - Also I spoke to someone with a Garmin Dealership and they said that the dealer has access to all of that stuff online and he has never registered something like that so he thinks that the $800 is just a charge to print documents from the Garmin dealer access area for NON Garmin dealers installing.  He said for that type of component he has never done anything further than printing the STC and documents related to the 337 Form.  So if I am working with a Garmin dealer to do it it won't be any further charge.

Sound about right?

As part of the paperwork I received , I have a letter from Garmin saying I am authorized to use the STC in my specific N number aircraft . That’s the only piece that’s specific. 

all the other papers - STC, IM, POH supplement , ICA, ... - , anyone (no need to be a garmin dealer) can download and print 

 

[OR75]

21 minutes ago, sdflysurf said:

I just spoke with Garmin - the fee for the permission letter would be $800 per INSTALL (so that would cover both G5s) but that is the Customer Price, so the Garmin dealer price is ???  - Also I spoke to someone with a Garmin Dealership and they said that the dealer has access to all of that stuff online and he has never registered something like that so he thinks that the $800 is just a charge to print documents from the Garmin dealer access area for NON Garmin dealers installing.  He said for that type of component he has never done anything further than printing the STC and documents related to the 337 Form.  So if I am working with a Garmin dealer to do it it won't be any further charge.

Sound about right?

Of course , if you buy a certified G5 from the dealer that $800 charge is included in the price 

[sdflysurf]

Just now, OR75 said:

As part of the paperwork I received , I have a letter from Garmin saying I am authorized to use the STC in my specific N number aircraft . That’s the only piece that’s specific. 

all the other papers - STC, IM, POH supplement , ICA, ... - , anyone (no need to be a garmin dealer) can download and print 

 

Good to know - Does anyone have a copy of their letter with the N number location?  I'll double check that I can get that through my Garmin Dealer for no charge or if he has to buy it like a part-number/sku on their system.

[Vance Harral]

Having just been through this, our partnership opted for G5s instead of GI-275s, basically due to cost.  The cost of the units themselves is part of that.  But for reasons that still aren't clear to me, local shops (Denver area) were quoting substantially more to install GI-275s than G5s.  That made the walk-away price an unattractive tradeoff for the additional features - which weren't that compelling to us.  Those quotes don't really jive with what folks here are saying about installation costs, and again, I'm not sure why.  It's possible the GI-275s are still new enough that shops are hedging their bets on complications, or maybe it's just what the market will bear for the shiniest of new toys.

You mentioned flush mounting.  In our airplane (1976 M20F), the instruments are spaced closely enough in the stock panel that there is not room to install the flush mount bracket without impinging on the adjacent ASI/TC and ALT/VSI.  Flush mounting would have required cutting a whole new panel.  So we are living with the less-endearing, non-flush mount.  I don't really notice it sitting in the left seat, but when I glance over from the right seat while instructing/safety-piloting, it's certainly a noticeable "wart".

That said, with about 10 hours behind the G5, I'm really happy with it.  I wanted to train myself to fly EFIS style, so I went up the other day with a safety pilot and flew approaches with all the steam gauges covered up (with 800+ hours behind the steam gauges I found myself constantly "reverting" to them).  Took about 15 minutes to get dialed in, then it was easy as pie.  I'm sure the GI-275s are similar.  You really can't go wrong with either unit.

[AerostarDriver]

Just now, Vance Harral said:

Having just been through this, our partnership opted for G5s instead of GI-275s, basically due to cost.  The cost of the units themselves is part of that.  But for reasons that still aren't clear to me, local shops (Denver area) were quoting substantially more to install GI-275s than G5s.  That made the walk-away price an unattractive tradeoff for the additional features - which weren't that compelling to us.  Those quotes don't really jive with what folks here are saying about installation costs, and again, I'm not sure why.  It's possible the GI-275s are still new enough that shops are hedging their bets on complications, or maybe it's just what the market will bear for the shiniest of new toys.

You mentioned flush mounting.  In our airplane (1976 M20F), the instruments are spaced closely enough in the stock panel that there is not room to install the flush mount bracket without impinging on the adjacent ASI/TC and ALT/VSI.  Flush mounting would have required cutting a whole new panel.  So we are living with the less-endearing, non-flush mount.  I don't really notice it sitting in the left seat, but when I glance over from the right seat while instructing/safety-piloting, it's certainly a noticeable "wart".

That said, with about 10 hours behind the G5, I'm really happy with it.  I wanted to train myself to fly EFIS style, so I went up the other day with a safety pilot and flew approaches with all the steam gauges covered up (with 800+ hours behind the steam gauges I found myself constantly "reverting" to them).  Took about 15 minutes to get dialed in, then it was easy as pie.  I'm sure the GI-275s are similar.  You really can't go wrong with either unit.

Some shops are still charging the early adopter price as they have not done them before. Their is no reason as to why the cost to do the GI-275 should be more then the G5:

• The consumables are cheaper
• You don't need to make mounts for the GAD29B and the GAD13
• Less connectors to make up
• In most cases the only modification to the panel is to drill out the #6 holes for #8 holes for the instrument itself
• The number of connections required are dramatically less if your navigator supports HSDB vs ARINC only on the legacy GNS units

The G5 harness and Install took me 19 total hours. To do the GI-275 MFD and GSB15 was 6 hours from opening the box to flipping the master on. The connections are no different between the BASE and the ADHRS unit other then not needing the GMU 11 connected.

[Vance Harral]

2 minutes ago, AerostarDriver said:

Their is no reason as to why the cost to do the GI-275 should be more then the G5

Sure, I don't disagree with your logic.  But the quotes are what they are, possibly just because that's what the market will bear around here.  Mainly just cautioning the OP and others reading the thread to get actual "walk-away price" installation quotes to determine the cost difference when making their own decision.

If you've got the time and a good relationship with an A&P, and you're handy enough, you can do some/all of the installation yourself.  For the DIY club, the points about fewer connectors/mounts/etc. with the GI-275 are certainly attractive.

[OR75]

3 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

Sure, I don't disagree with your logic.  But the quotes are what they are, possibly just because that's what the market will bear around here.  Mainly just cautioning the OP and others reading the thread to get actual "walk-away price" installation quotes to determine the cost difference when making their own decision.

If you've got the time and a good relationship with an A&P, and you're handy enough, you can do some/all of the installation yourself.  For the DIY club, the points about fewer connectors/mounts/etc. with the GI-275 are certainly attractive.

I am note sure where the idea of less connections required with the GI275 

looks about the same to me 

the only painful parts for me would be those stupid diode and resistors with the G5 

[McMooney]

4 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

Some shops are still charging the early adopter price as they have not done them before. Their is no reason as to why the cost to do the GI-275 should be more then the G5:

• The consumables are cheaper
• You don't need to make mounts for the GAD29B and the GAD13
• Less connectors to make up
• In most cases the only modification to the panel is to drill out the #6 holes for #8 holes for the instrument itself
• The number of connections required are dramatically less if your navigator supports HSDB vs ARINC only on the legacy GNS units

The G5 harness and Install took me 19 total hours. To do the GI-275 MFD and GSB15 was 6 hours from opening the box to flipping the master on. The connections are no different between the BASE and the ADHRS unit other then not needing the GMU 11 connected.

The quote i have has Far less time for the gi275 installs vs the g5.  

With the package price they are offering i might just pivot back to big G instead of going Dynon.

[RobertGary1]

6 hours ago, dzeleski said:

My J goes in for a second G5 and a GFC 500 in 30 days. There are two reasons I decided to go with the G5 over the 275.
1) Backup battery on the 275 is only a 60 min battery, the G5 is 4 hours
2) The round screen causes the tapes to be warped and clutters the screen too much imo

 

The battery difference is only in certification. Since the 275 was designed from the start for certified aircraft it was easier to understate through performance . Our shop tested g5 and 275 side by side and the 275 battery lasted longer. 

[RobertGary1]

4 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

Sure, I don't disagree with your logic.  But the quotes are what they are, possibly just because that's what the market will bear around here.  Mainly just cautioning the OP and others reading the thread to get actual "walk-away price" installation quotes to determine the cost difference when making their own decision.

If you've got the time and a good relationship with an A&P, and you're handy enough, you can do some/all of the installation yourself.  For the DIY club, the points about fewer connectors/mounts/etc. with the GI-275 are certainly attractive.

I know any A&P can install a g5 but isn’t the 275 a dealer only item?

[Vance Harral]

39 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I know any A&P can install a g5 but isn’t the 275 a dealer only item?

Dealer installation required for "ADAHRS variant" (i.e. as an attitude indicator), A&P installation OK for non-ADAHRS variant: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=zZe6ycoT1q4hi7MbTE7TP9

[ZuluZulu]

7 hours ago, dzeleski said:

My J goes in for a second G5 and a GFC 500 in 30 days. There are two reasons I decided to go with the G5 over the 275.
1) Backup battery on the 275 is only a 60 min battery, the G5 is 4 hours
2) The round screen causes the tapes to be warped and clutters the screen too much imo

 

 

6 hours ago, sdflysurf said:

I think those are two good reasons for me to stay with the G5 and put some of the extra money into the interior.

I am thinking I will get all of the basic AI and HSI features - and then use my IPAD (which I already use 90% of the time) for Synthetic vision, terrain, weather, traffic, etc.

As of this morning I think I have all of my questions answered except for making sure it can flush mount with the current panel design and any autopilot questions (but I don't have an autopilot so I can save that for another day).

This is what I did.  I thought the GI-275 was too cluttered and I didn't like the round form factor.  I also had more than 100 hours in rental Cherokees behind G5s and liked the instrument.  Then again this is a stopgap solution, since I'm planning on upgrading to G3X Touch within the next five years anyway.  If it was intended to be a permanent installation I may have given the GI-275 more thought.  I have to admit I do wish I had the HSI Map, but that's it.

[sdflysurf]

5 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

 

This is what I did.  I thought the GI-275 was too cluttered and I didn't like the round form factor.  I also had more than 100 hours in rental Cherokees behind G5s and liked the instrument.  Then again this is a stopgap solution, since I'm planning on upgrading to G3X Touch within the next five years anyway.  If it was intended to be a permanent installation I may have given the GI-275 more thought.  I have to admit I do wish I had the HSI Map, but that's it.

Do you have an ipad with foreflight? seems like that has everything on it right there no?

[ZuluZulu]

2 minutes ago, sdflysurf said:

Do you have an ipad with foreflight? seems like that has everything on it right there no?

I do, an iPad mini on the yoke.  This is my panel.  I had the KAP 150, which complicates flush-mounting dual G5s due to the adapters and metalwork required to make the square holes in the panel work.  So I skipped it.  I was quoted more than $6000 extra for flush-mounting if memory serves.  Pointless since a G3X Touch is in my future.

[sdflysurf]

Oh @ZuluZulu looking at that panel - I think you'll be just fine with the G5 without adding anything more!   Very nice.

I really like my IPAD mini with foreflight - I am also really looking forward to the G5 - they seem very simple I don't need over complicated extras.  I have the IPAD and my iphone as a backup.

[carusoam]

Zulu,

The JPI just sent a request...  

It noticed a couple of empty holes...  he wants to move over...  

-a-

[sdflysurf]

Just now, carusoam said:

Zulu,

The JPI just sent a request...  

It noticed a couple of empty holes...  he wants to move over...  

-a-

haha - well then he'll have to flush the G5s while the panel is open.

I don't know how you guys ever are 100% happy around here.  Probably always thinking of ways to update!

[carusoam]

7 minutes ago, sdflysurf said:

haha - well then he'll have to flush the G5s while the panel is open.

I don't know how you guys ever are 100% happy around here.  Probably always thinking of ways to update!

we start at 100% happy...

That’s how we got here...

1) Have Mooney... 100%

2) Mooney is AW after annual.... 110%

3) Mooney still has a few hours to go before deciding to fly beyond TBO... 115%

4) Mooney has FF and an engine monitor... 120%

5) Look at Zulu’s yokes... those are too nice to put an iPad in front of... 199% happy!

6) Extra credit in relation to number of color screens in the plane...

 

Always keep an open mind to what is being said...

It is most often a good conversation amongst friends...

Some people are challenged by typing... often, you can barely get enough words out of them...

Except that one guy that types a lot, but doesn’t say very much...

-a-

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Zulu,

The JPI just sent a request...  

It noticed a couple of empty holes...  he wants to move over...  

-a-

Trust me, I got quotes for that already!  But it doesn't make sense with the G3X Touch coming.

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

5) Look at Zulu’s yokes... those are too nice to put an iPad in front of... 199% happy!

Craftsmanship of Hector at Aero Comfort, of course.  It's funny, there's easily been more than $75,000 spent on the panel (some by the prior owners) and yet it's the $1000 control wheels I get asked about and complimented the most.  And it's not even close.

[RobertGary1]

On the ground I tend to put the #2 275 in safetaxi mode and it shows taxing aircraft around me. It’s fun to see all the other planes moving around on the airport map. 

[carusoam]

1 minute ago, RobertGary1 said:

On the ground I tend to put the #2 275 in safetaxi mode and it shows taxing aircraft around me. It’s fun to see all the other planes moving around on the airport map. 

got a pic?

That sounds interesting...

Best regards,

-a-