Have I gone mad? Dreaming of ceiling-mounted light switches...

[ZuluZulu]

Most of you are familiar with the ceiling-mounted light switch panel on long bodies and Allegros:

I would really like to have these, but my plane is a little too old to have come like that from the factory.  

Has anyone ever tried to add this panel to a plane without it?  Is this a rubbish idea, or a brilliant idea?  Have I lost my mind?

[Mark605]

Anything is possible with enough money

[M20F-1968]

6 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

Most of you are familiar with the ceiling-mounted light switch panel on long bodies and Allegros:

I would really like to have these, but my plane is a little too old to have come like that from the factory.  

Has anyone ever tried to add this panel to a plane without it?  Is this a rubbish idea, or a brilliant idea?  Have I lost my mind?

I retrofitted an Ovation interior into my F model.  I have attached some pictures. 

The center ceiling panel that has the switches is held in the ceiling with only two screws in the center portion of the long panel.  I would not buy the factory electroluminescent panel as it is too expensive and is made with a plastic backing.  You can use the factory switches and mounting box.  I made an aluminum backplate and sent it out to make a more durable electroluminescent panel which is a functional copy of the Mooney panel (I'll send a picture of this new panel).  The switches only need to be rocker switches approved for aircraft use (used in any certified aircraft).  Wentworth aircraft or other salvage yards could be a good source.

The center ceiling console can be gotten from Mooney, from a salvage yard, or you can do a hand lay-up with fiberglass which would be cheaper and can be custom fitted to your ceiling.  

I have the right and left Ovation fiberglass roof panels which I would be willing to sell.  I purchased them from Mooney, and started to fit them into my F.  (I then ended up with two sets as I obtained a full Ovation interior from a salvage yard.)  They can be retrofitted to your aircraft in a similar manner as what I did.

John Breda

[GeeBee]

Go to overhead switches if you have no other panel options. It may make you feel like Roger Ramjet to throw some switches on the overhead but they are a PIA. I hate having to look up as I taxi clear to adjust my lights. There is a reason why transport jets have panel annunciations of overheads and dark panel concepts. Sure they put light switches on the overhead but much more forward and lower than the Mooney switches.

An easier and more efficient way to gain panel real estate is to go to a glass panel. Keep as much as you can forward of you.

 

[Yetti]

It's a crapload of wires to move and run up there that would be a PIA to do.  Sure it's just time and money.   I wouldn't want all those wires up there. 

[M20F-1968]

9 hours ago, Yetti said:

It's a crapload of wires to move and run up there that would be a PIA to do.  Sure it's just time and money.   I wouldn't want all those wires up there. 

The wires are run behind the fiberglass that runs between the windshield and the door.  It is small enough the that it makes one harness that is spiral wrapped together.  Really no big deal.

John Breda

[Mooney in Oz]

On 1/1/2021 at 7:22 PM, ZuluZulu said:

 Is this a rubbish idea, or a brilliant idea?  Have I lost my mind?

Like beauty, desire is in the eye of the beholder.

As always, Geebee offers good advice.  Also ask the opinion of Ovation, Bravo and Acclaim owners. Better still, if you can get a hold of one of these, fly it at night and see for yourself.  John Breda is obviously happy with his setup.

After your research and you are sure you want and can afford it, then go for it!

[Yetti]

12 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

The wires are run behind the fiberglass that runs between the windshield and the door.  It is small enough the that it makes one harness that is spiral wrapped together.  Really no big deal.

John Breda

I just ran 2-RG400 and 4 wires down that side.  Seemed to take longer than it should have but maybe I am getting old and less skilled.   They may have added more room with the other panels.

[M20F-1968]

10 hours ago, Yetti said:

I just ran 2-RG400 and 4 wires down that side.  Seemed to take longer than it should have but maybe I am getting old and less skilled.   They may have added more room with the other panels.

With the Ovation panels it is pretty easy.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

On 1/1/2021 at 12:05 PM, GeeBee said:

Go to overhead switches if you have no other panel options. It may make you feel like Roger Ramjet to throw some switches on the overhead but they are a PIA. I hate having to look up as I taxi clear to adjust my lights. There is a reason why transport jets have panel annunciations of overheads and dark panel concepts. Sure they put light switches on the overhead but much more forward and lower than the Mooney switches.

An easier and more efficient way to gain panel real estate is to go to a glass panel. Keep as much as you can forward of you.

 

 

18 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Like beauty, desire is in the eye of the beholder.

As always, Geebee offers good advice.  Also ask the opinion of Ovation, Bravo and Acclaim owners. Better still, if you can get a hold of one of these, fly it at night and see for yourself.  John Breda is obviously happy with his setup.

After your research and you are sure you want and can afford it, then go for it!

The Mooney part you pictured is expensive and poorly made.  When I bought my Ovation interior from a salvage yard, that panel came with it, but it never worked as the electroluminescent was cracked.  Why was it cracked?  The backplate on the factory part is plastic and it will heat up and warp.  Gravity allows the warm plastic to stretch.

I made a new part using the original switches and mounting box, but made the mounting plate fir the Electroluminescent display out of aluminum.  It is insulated, and will never warp.  Looks sharp at night.  I'll send pics.  The switches are marked, but the same marking in on the Electroluminescent display.  Further, there are only 6 switches, and they are all lights.  It is not a 737 overhead panel.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

For those who want electroluminescent panels made (I did the overhead and circuit breaker panels), the company I used was Air Capitol Dial, Wichita, KS.  Great company to work with

My circuit breaker panel is light colored.  They made it so the lettering appears black in daylight, and backlit white at night.

John Breda

[Yetti]

15 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

With the Ovation panels it is pretty easy.

John Breda

If doing, I would do it as a control circuit with canbus or something fun.

[carusoam]

With so many lights to control...

• two landing
• two taxi
• two recog
• beacon
• Nav
• Strobes

That’s a lot of lights compared to MY M20C...

The overhead switches are beautiful... easily memorized for what they do... (for some people) 

Getting parts from the factory would be a great way to do it...

Wait... there is a Long body in Europe being salvaged... these parts may still be available...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[rcwagner]

You have gone mad.

[Jeff_S]

One thing to keep in mind is if you use the non-factory visors.  I loved the Rosen visors on my J model, but they are not allowed (and none other exist, that i have found) because any meaningful visor will obscure the light switches when it's retracted.  It's a bummer, because those crappy visors that come from the factory are useless.

[ZuluZulu]

7 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

One thing to keep in mind is if you use the non-factory visors.  I loved the Rosen visors on my J model, but they are not allowed (and none other exist, that i have found) because any meaningful visor will obscure the light switches when it's retracted.  It's a bummer, because those crappy visors that come from the factory are useless.

Not sure about that.  My Rosens are never in the way of that panel (if it was there) and they can be moved out of the way if need be.

[ZuluZulu]

Can anyone recommend a creative, skilled interior plastic/fiberglass wrangler who might be willing to take something like this on?  Or who can at least consult?

[carusoam]

Find the ovation being parted out in Europe around here...

See what is left of the interior...

Or, contact the factory to see what it costs to have one built...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Find the ovation being parted out in Europe around here...

See what is left of the interior...

Or, contact the factory to see what it costs to have one built...

Best regards,

-a-

That was the first thing I asked about a few months ago and it was already sold.

[ZuluZulu]

16 hours ago, carusoam said:

Find the ovation being parted out in Europe around here...

See what is left of the interior...

Or, contact the factory to see what it costs to have one built...

Best regards,

-a-

I'm not that concerned with finding parts ... it's the installation I'm trying to figure out.

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

I'm not that concerned with finding parts ... it's the installation I'm trying to figure out.

In that case... follow the Parts Manual from Mooney...

Mooney parts installed in a Mooney airplane... by a mechanic familiar with Mooneys...

Should be easy peasy....

PP thoughts only not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[M20F-1968]

On 1/25/2021 at 9:05 AM, Jeff_S said:

One thing to keep in mind is if you use the non-factory visors.  I loved the Rosen visors on my J model, but they are not allowed (and none other exist, that i have found) because any meaningful visor will obscure the light switches when it's retracted.  It's a bummer, because those crappy visors that come from the factory are useless.

When I installed the Rosen Visors I thought I would cut them down to a smaller size.  Then I realized that all I need to do is store them longitudinally against the roof.  

That way, you get maximum shade coverage, and they store quite nicely with no modifications needed.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

On 1/25/2021 at 10:25 PM, carusoam said:

Find the ovation being parted out in Europe around here...

See what is left of the interior...

Or, contact the factory to see what it costs to have one built...

Best regards,

-a-

I think the interior of the Ovation in Europe has been sold.  Certainly can e-mail the seller to confirm.  I would try to get the cost of the center ceiling part from the factory.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

On 1/26/2021 at 11:02 PM, carusoam said:

In that case... follow the Parts Manual from Mooney...

Mooney parts installed in a Mooney airplane... by a mechanic familiar with Mooneys...

Should be easy peasy....

PP thoughts only not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

This is not just a screw in place and be done project.  Although the ceiling curvature and width of the cabin is the same, the length of the panels and the window openings need to be fitted to the airframe.  Since the panels are fiberglass, they can be modified, sanded, and sculpted as needed.  If you want to modify the contours to fit against the lower side panels, you can use Bondo, sculpt and sand the material when it is soft, and use hand scrapers made for removing and shaping bondo while it dries (which takes about 15-30 minutes), then sand and finish.  Once you have the shape you want, hand lay-up a layer or two of fiberglass to make the shape hard and protect it.  I used the airframe as a mold by protecting it with Saran wrap and then Layed-up a layer of fiberglass, let it dry, mark the outline of the windows with a sharpie, cut the window opening and sand to finish.  The worker need not be a Mooney mechanic, just a good fiberglass worker that knows airplanes.  An EAA builder would be great.

John Breda

[aviatoreb]

I wish someone - more handy than me - would make ultra thin carbon fiber skins copies of our plastic interior pieces to replace the interior pieces.  These are nonstructural so they could be uber thin, I presume.  Am I right?  And if so, then also very light.