State Of General Aviation

[Missile=Awesome]

56 minutes ago, philip_g said:

it's not their fault YOUR hobby is dying because it's not THEIR priority.

 

Jesus, aren't you missing a trump superspreader event somewhere? Getting the rona helps the economy out a lot. Maybe you can get together and cry about how it's not fair we let people of color vote.

Trigger alert....lol

 

Seriously.  Just wow. Your take away is not in left field. It’s out of the stadium. 

[glbtrottr]

wow.
out of context and so venomous.
 

You think?

Here’s a little virtue signaling demanding tolerance of what’s en-Vogue while slamming a poster whose politics are unknown by slamming them...

Maybe you can get together and cry about how it's not fair we let people of color vote.

What do Trump, black people like my daughter, corona virus and super spreading have to do with Mooney and declining aviation?

You can throw a rock and hit a venomous person these days. At least in this forum we have the love of mooney’s in common.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, glbtrottr said:

You can throw a rock and hit a venomous person these days. At least in this forum we have the love of mooney’s in common.

Amen, brother!

Although I'd probably say, like I do about ponds near my home:  you can't thriw a stick around here without bouncing off of two or three of them.

[Missile=Awesome]

Had the poster just quit after the first clarification it would of been fine.  I seriously did not understand his context until he clarified.

What is ironic is that he summarized my initial...long since deleted...comments in Little Timmy on why youth are “not into airplanes”.

The diatribe on Trump=racist and wanting to spread Covid 19 was over the top and says more about him and what “he believes” of millions of fellow humans that work, love, live and pursue happiness just makes me sad...

AND a tad bid angry.  Another example of judging and projecting and de-humanizing by inserting emotion and pre-conceived beliefs upon others that you truly know nothing about.

I wish Phil reflection and wisdom.

If not...perhaps I will meet him on the battlefield.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Missile=Awesome

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

About eight years ago I spent a little while teaching at DeVry in Phoenix.   One of the many reasons I stopped teaching there was that, according to discussions with the students, they were typically getting out of there with about $100k debt loads.   This was for electronic and medical equipment technicians, not engineering students.   DeVry makes it very easy for students to accumulate debt, and their programs are expensive.   Can't afford it?   No problem, just sign here.   At that time the salaries that they could expect to start at after leaving the program would still make it very difficult to service those debt loads.  Obviously no counselor or advisor at the school was going to steer them away from the debt load.

I'll +1 that the kids are going to be fine.   Until this year (virus interruption) I was volunteering every year as a judge at the FIRST Robotics tournaments (high school), and every few years at the International Science and Engineering Fair when it comes to Phoenix.   I've also volunteered a fair amount at a local teen safety driving survival school run by some friends I race with.   These have all given me exposure to a wide variety of kids from all kinds of backgrounds and I gotta say I have zero worries for their ability to handle the future, and I think we'll be in better hands when they get in charge.   If anything, I'm embarrassed for the conditions that the previous generations have left for them to deal with.

 

Good for you!  I have also been at the ISEF several times, three times, when our middle son won a state fair a few times, and so trips to the international science fair.  And all those three times I volunteered to judge in my specialty category, math, while he was in aero, so I was no where near him.  One of those times was at Phoenix - 2013? - maybe we crossed paths and didn't know it?  Wow what a group of highly motivated kids in that big room at the convention centers!  1600 entries from literally all around the world.  What an event, and I agree I have no worry about our future when I am in the room with that lot of motivated high achiever kids. 

Since then my wife and I are founding directors of a new fair in our northern tier rural counties.  When my son did it we were driving south to the "big city" Syracuse, and we were literally the only family from our several northern tier counties there.  Now we have about 100 kids that participate in our new local fair.

[EricJ]

7 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Good for you!  I have also been at the ISEF several times, three times, when our middle son won a state fair a few times, and so trips to the international science fair.  And all those three times I volunteered to judge in my specialty category, math, while he was in aero, so I was no where near him.  One of those times was at Phoenix - 2013? - maybe we crossed paths and didn't know it?  Wow what a group of highly motivated kids in that big room at the convention centers!  1600 entries from literally all around the world.  What an event, and I agree I have no worry about our future when I am in the room with that lot of motivated high achiever kids. 

Since then my wife and I are founding directors of a new fair in our northern tier rural counties.  When my son did it we were driving south to the "big city" Syracuse, and we were literally the only family from our several northern tier counties there.  Now we have about 100 kids that participate in our new local fair.

Awesome, and best of luck with the program!

ISEF is amazingly inspiring and so much fun.   I did judge here in 2013, in the robotics or electronics category or whatever it was at the time, so our paths may have crossed, but probably not for long or very often.     It's hard to come away from ISEF or FIRST Robotics without being inspired by the kids.   

[Missile=Awesome]

17 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Good for you!  I have also been at the ISEF several times, three times, when our middle son won a state fair a few times, and so trips to the international science fair.  And all those three times I volunteered to judge in my specialty category, math, while he was in aero, so I was no where near him.  One of those times was at Phoenix - 2013? - maybe we crossed paths and didn't know it?  Wow what a group of highly motivated kids in that big room at the convention centers!  1600 entries from literally all around the world.  What an event, and I agree I have no worry about our future when I am in the room with that lot of motivated high achiever kids. 

Since then my wife and I are founding directors of a new fair in our northern tier rural counties.  When my son did it we were driving south to the "big city" Syracuse, and we were literally the only family from our several northern tier counties there.  Now we have about 100 kids that participate in our new local fair.

Erik:

You see yet your eyes have filters to what you WISH to see (which is good) versus what is REALLY there to be seen.  This thread is an example of what IS and what YOU wish it to be...

This is not utopia sir.  This is Realsville.

I wish it were otherwise, but sadly

Unless you have rose colored glasses and selective vision...

It’s right out in front of you...and you see...but you pretend.

This is perhaps self-serving?

Perhaps it is agreement?

I will ask you sir.  Do you believe me to be a racist because I support the President?

I have been called a racist.

What say you sir?

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, philip_g said:

it's not their fault YOUR hobby is dying because it's not THEIR priority.

 

Jesus, aren't you missing a trump superspreader event somewhere? Getting the rona helps the economy out a lot. Maybe you can get together and cry about how it's not fair we let people of color vote.

Wow, a true hater!

[N201MKTurbo]

I work for an engineering and industrial automation company. We routinely hire interns and keep about 80% of them. These are very smart and motivated kids. They give me hope for the future.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Erik:

...

What say you sir?

Having a pair of rose color glasses is good for the soul.  The real young people I work with include many impressive people, and that is true and for real.  That is on topic of the thread on future of GA, but the thread is what we make of it.  I choose to keep out of politics that has thrust into this thread.

Erik

[Missile=Awesome]

16 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Having a pair of rose color glasses is good for the soul.  The real young people I work with include many impressive people, and that is true and for real.  That is on topic of the thread on future of GA, but the thread is what we make of it.  I choose to keep out of politics that has thrust into this thread.

Erik

OK Erik. I don’t dispute at ALL that there is beauty and talent in the young everywhere. Having someone call you a racist is not political in and of itself. It is just their belief. I asked you for an opinion having knowledge of my comments through years of association. Your silence speaks volumes and saddens me. Is what it is I guess. I expected better. Lesson learned. Silly me. 

[aviatoreb]

15 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

OK Erik. I don’t dispute at ALL that there is beauty and talent in the young everywhere. Having someone call you a racist is not political in and of itself. It is just their belief. I asked you for an opinion having knowledge of my comments through years of association. Your silence speaks volumes and saddens me. Is what it is I guess. I expected better. Lesson learned. Silly me. 

Certainly name calling has no place here, and I am sorry for that.  I am trying to not enter into what would easily become a with me or against me rabbit hole.  That is not it at all.  Have you been here for years?  I thought it was months, no long ago you joined.  Well that is neither here nor there, since name calling has no place here.  But again, as for the topic, the future of ga, I am bullish.  What will ga look like in the future?  I don't know but it will be there for some time to come looking like something.

[Hank]

8 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Certainly name calling has no place here, and I am sorry for that.  I am trying to not enter into what would easily become a with me or against me rabbit hole.  That is not it at all.  Have you been here for years?  I thought it was months, no long ago you joined.  Well that is neither here nor there, since name calling has no place here.  But again, as for the topic, the future of ga, I am bullish.  What will ga look like in the future?  I don't know but it will be there for some time to come looking like something.

Missile's been in and out several times, changing names each time. Lots of politically-motivated haters and ill wishes in the world, itnsure ismnice to come here and (mostly!) escape it . . . .

But I must agree, you are seeing and dealing with the cream, not the bulk of the up-and-coming nor even the average.

[tmo]

35 minutes ago, Hank said:

But I must agree, you are seeing and dealing with the cream, not the bulk of the up-and-coming nor even the average.

True. The "real world" "information bubble" (that thing that them evil algorithms do when they select the news / posts / recommendations of people to become "friends" with we see online). But there isn't a good way to escape it, that I know of, and I'd say that is a very universal problem (as in, over here in Poland I live in my own version of a "bubble" blissfully unaware of the hardships others not that far away go through).

That said, I'm sure Erik is aware, and is doing his part to "bridge the gap" - e.g. the foundation he mentioned. A great undertaking for which I can only applaud him.

A road trip across multiple states is very eye-opening as to the differences of peoples' qualities of life. Even just taking a drive from the Death Valley back to LA you will see people living in trailer homes with nothing but tumbleweed to play with, through "normal" towns, all the way to the Hollywood Hills or thereabouts.

Or taking a U-Haul from Austin to Cleveland, with many interesting stops along the way. Or a Greyhound from Austin to Chicago. Or just driving through parts of Chicago and on to some of the better-to-do suburbs.

It is not unique to the US, and I am in no way trying to shame it. I have a very soft spot in my heart / brain for the country and its people, as diverse as they are. There is as much difference between parts of Poland, and the distances are much smaller. And we, as a society, haven't yet really gotten to the level of you guys when it comes to doing things for other people just because we believe it to be the right thing to do.

Not really sure how we got here and what it has to do with general aviation, but what the heck

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Missile's been in and out several times, changing names each time. Lots of politically-motivated haters and ill wishes in the world, itnsure ismnice to come here and (mostly!) escape it . . . .

But I must agree, you are seeing and dealing with the cream, not the bulk of the up-and-coming nor even the average.

I didn't know he has been here by other identities. My apologies for not realizing.

For sure, I am describing the excellent motivated young people.  On the topic of the future of GA, and then we drifted to a version of saying a generation is lost and unmotivated, I stood up to say that I see many in the rising generation to be proud of.  Not as a poll, or a statistical study, but just a call out that they are there.

[0TreeLemur]

2 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

For sure, I am describing the excellent motivated young people.  On the topic of the future of GA, and then we drifted to a version of saying a generation is lost and unmotivated, I stood up to say that I see many in the rising generation to be proud of.  Not as a poll, or a statistical study, but just a call out that they are there.

I too work with a lot of young people.  The rise of computers as the leading edge of technology is very exciting, and I suggest this has contributed mightily to a decline in interest in aviation, which used to be the top tech when many of us where youngsters.  The "greyhoundization" (is that a thing?- I think so) of air travel also made it less appealing to most people.  End result: youngsters of the current age are not drawn to aviation as a career or as a passionate hobby.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, tmo said:

True. The "real world" "information bubble" (that thing that them evil algorithms do when they select the news / posts / recommendations of people to become "friends" with we see online). But there isn't a good way to escape it, that I know of, and I'd say that is a very universal problem (as in, over here in Poland I live in my own version of a "bubble" blissfully unaware of the hardships others not that far away go through).

That said, I'm sure Erik is aware, and is doing his part to "bridge the gap" - e.g. the foundation he mentioned. A great undertaking for which I can only applaud him.

A road trip across multiple states is very eye-opening as to the differences of peoples' qualities of life. Even just taking a drive from the Death Valley back to LA you will see people living in trailer homes with nothing but tumbleweed to play with, through "normal" towns, all the way to the Hollywood Hills or thereabouts.

Or taking a U-Haul from Austin to Cleveland, with many interesting stops along the way. Or a Greyhound from Austin to Chicago. Or just driving through parts of Chicago and on to some of the better-to-do suburbs.

It is not unique to the US, and I am in no way trying to shame it. I have a very soft spot in my heart / brain for the country and its people, as diverse as they are. There is as much difference between parts of Poland, and the distances are much smaller. And we, as a society, haven't yet really gotten to the level of you guys when it comes to doing things for other people just because we believe it to be the right thing to do.

Not really sure how we got here and what it has to do with general aviation, but what the heck

Seems like a natural place to get to, speaking of economy, opportunity, and motivation of the rising generations when the topic is the future of GA.

The poverty you describe, we know and just to say my rose colored glasses doesn't mean I don't know and see.  Far from living in an ivory tower, or a gated community.  We live in a rural county in far upstate NY.  7.5 hours drive north of the city. And a whole world different.  In our county we certainly have tremendous poverty exactly as the stereotype goes.  And it is at the same time a location with stunning natural beauty, with mountains, lakes, farms, rivers, trees and snow.  My kids schooling had kids in the public schools from families of professors, doctors, lawyers and engineers, to farmers, hair dressers, restaurant workers, and across the gamut.  More than once when our sons would have kiddie birthday parties, their chosen friends to invite had kids whose family may not have had a car, and so I would go pick them up perhaps at exactly the trailer home in disrepair you described.  Now that all those kids are early 20's like our sons, I see them around town and I call out to them.  One girl from a family that fell on especially hard times, we took into our home and we looked after here for about 6 months when she was 6.  She works in a hair salon in town and she seems like she is doing ok.

[tmo]

@smwash02 - when I wrote "information bubble" I didn't mean "peer pressure" but "news in general" - the fact that it takes a lot of conscious effort to see the world from outside of one's "bubble". Something along the lines of the fact that we tend to read the paper that is along our lines of seeing the world, not the one that represents a fundamentally different view; even more so in the "digital realm" where we not only bias ourselves the same way we do in the "real" world, but the usual providers of information bias what they present us with what they think we want to see.

[Missile=Awesome]

6 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I didn't know he has been here by other identities. My apologies for not realizing.

For sure, I am describing the excellent motivated young people.  On the topic of the future of GA, and then we drifted to a version of saying a generation is lost and unmotivated, I stood up to say that I see many in the rising generation to be proud of.  Not as a poll, or a statistical study, but just a call out that they are there.

Erik,

I have been active on Mooneyspace since about a year after it’s inception.  I have thousands of posts...

I have owned and operated a Mooney (first a M20E and now our Missile) for over 15 years.

The VAST majority of my posts have been in support of Mooney (to a fault perhaps)

There was one VERY short post, NOT by me that discussed the “youth of today”.

I 100% agree that there are MANY young people that are contributors to society and in the case of my son, will likely pursue general aviation.

The cost barrier to “enter” has always been prohibitive, but like earning a college or vocational degree, where there is a will and desire there is a way.

I would never call out a group as “being something” as was done to me.  Calling someone a “racist” for not retroactively supporting the “forgiveness of a debt voluntarily undertaken” at taxpayer expense...is the lowest of lows.

Name calling is one thing.  Calling someone a racist is apparently easy on the keyboard in 2020.  That is a sad reflection of the division that has been sown.

I plan to fly tomorrow on a beautiful December day that is projected in Eastern Iowa.  I will be setting my % power on my EDM830.

I won’t be thinking about Covid, The election, The division in the country while exercising my privilege of airmanship in the USA...

[aviatoreb]

30 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Erik,

I have been active on Mooneyspace since about a year after it’s inception.  I have thousands of posts...

I have owned and operated a Mooney (first a M20E and now our Missile) for over 15 years.

Wow - I am sorry Missile=Awesome!  I didn't even know.  I thought you just showed up.  Shows how daft I can be.  What is your real name if I may ask?  What were some of your previous identities and I am curious why you stopped and restarted with a new identity?

I will say something about the rest later.

[Missile=Awesome]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

Wow - I am sorry Missile=Awesome!  I didn't even know.  I thought you just showed up.  Shows how daft I can be.  What is your real name if I may ask?  What were some of your previous identities and I am curious why you stopped and restarted with a new identity?

I will say something about the rest later.

All out there in my Missile thread. Search on google Missile Coming Out Party. Didn’t ever quit Mooneyspace voluntarily....Ask Byron or -a-...Last ejection was for jokingly calling a person that said “call me a whiner” a whiner. Real reason was because I called someone out for degrading Mooney and praising his “chute” plane...Ancient history all...My favorite is the water in fuel caps caper...Sigh. I will always give my opinion. Some don’t like that around here...

[rbridges]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:48 PM, glbtrottr said:

I thought this forum went out of their way in their terms of service to avoid political brattle.  
 

While this was not aimed at me, this post certainly seems out of line.  

Hey Lloyd, good to see you on the forum again.  I haven't heard from you in over a year. You never replied to my messages.  I still haven't received payment for the CDI I sent you. 

[glbtrottr]

Oh, crap!  I fell off the face.  How much do I owe you?  Let me check messages...

[rbridges]

8 hours ago, glbtrottr said:

Oh, crap!  I fell off the face.  How much do I owe you?  Let me check messages...

I sent you a PM.  It would be nice for you to settle it. Thanks.