Want to buy - Encore

[DavidB]

5 hours ago, Gagarin said:

When you fill up all the long bodies with long range tanks to the top skin surface they will make 130+ gallons total. Some of the early long bodies have conduits at the filler hole that inhibit filling quickly to the top , thus limiting the amount of fuel you can put in. The table below shows the different fuel capacities. All of them are with speed brakes installed.

 

I heard from my brother about his tanks and he provides the following statement as well as the chart that he created to know exactly what is in the fuel tanks. 

My Monroys I have are officially 130 g. However I quickly discovered that if you rock the wings for the last few gallon when refueling, each tank will take 68 gallons instead of 65 (giving 136 total).  To be sure of my fuel capacity, I would circle an airport and run one tank bone dry. I would then land and fill the empty tank. It would take exactly 68 gallons. Next, I would repeat the procedure with the other tank and it took exactly 68 also. When running a tank dry, I would rock the wings using both rudder as well as ailerons to get any last gasps of fuel out of the tank. It turns out there was very little additional gas; definitely not worth mentioning. Same with the other tank. BTW, each wing has only one fueling port, not two. My Mooney has speed brakes. I should also make it known, my Monroys were installed by Mooney at the time of the aircraft's manufacture. This might still be possible with aftermarket timing. I'm just not sure.

The Monroy tanks are the best possible speed mod you can put on Mooney. I've heard of people spending anywhere from $3000 to as much as $8000 trying to get 5 more knots from their aircraft. Just a lousy 5 knots!  Maybe!  Saving a fuel stop time loss by never having to come down from 16,000' (or higher) for gas can be the equivalent of a 16-20KT speed mod and at the time you need and value it the most: Long Trips. Who even needs 3-5 more knots if your average trip is only 2 - 2.5 hours. Yes, I know long trips require urinary relief equipment ..... but that's another story.
 

fuel2.pdf

[carusoam]

David,

What keeps your brother from stopping in to MS?

Top three reasons are probably something like no time for social media...   

There is probably some interesting experience around here for him as well...

Reaching TBO on a Bravo can be generally expensive... as is any turbo six cylinder engine....with accessories...
 

Interesting tour you were on... there are a couple of threads around here regarding established gentlemen flyer’s beverages of choice...

Throughout the history of MS... it generally takes about 12 months to find the right Mooney...  Often, the first few months are doing the research to determine what plane is the proper one... then learning about the proper methods of buying the right one... which leaves about six months when you figure what exactly you want, and are comfortable enough to pull the trigger when you see it...
 

You have come a long way before you got here... finding the right plane can happen quickly, or may take some time, just because there are so few of what you are looking for...

It can be extra good when you have family in the flying world already...some MSers grew up in a Mooney family...
 

Another way to speed the process of finding a particular Mooney... is speaking with the companies that support them.. MSCs often know what is coming up for sale before it happens... and becomes public information... GMax aircraft is the new Better version Of All American Aircraft...  Talk with a Jimmy and see what he has and what he may have coming in...

https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com
 

Hope this helps your search...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[DavidB]

Thanks -a-

I encourage him to get onboard but he's a tough mule to push sometimes. 

This actually isn't my first rodeo. I bought a DA40 in 2015 and kept it for a couple of years. At the time it was a toss up between it and a 252. The DA won the toss when they surprisingly accepted my low-ball offer. It was a 2004 vs a 1988, low hours and G1000. Unfortunately it is a relatively short range plane so I sold it in 2017. Then a new house and 2 year renovation put aviation on the back burner. Now the coast is clear and I'm ready, willing and able once more. 

In the interim, I have explored many options. At one time I purchased a Lancair ES kit and hauled it to AirFrames Inc in Milan Tn but subsequently received an offer from S. Africa for it so it got shipped down there. I also made some new friends who owned Glasair II's and III's. The 3 was owned by an Air Force fighter pilot and he took me for some memorable rides. The upshot of that was that the Mrs. wouldn't be too keen on flying while wearing a parachute as the glide and stall speeds of the G3 are so high that an off field leading would probably not be survivable so bailing out would be the best option. Just didn't think I could get the wife to go with that. Tight cockpit too and I'm more or less a normal size. 

A lot of other explorations led me to the 2 finalists: the Encore and the VL3 Evolution. The problem with the VL3 is that it's made in Prague and although there are over 400 flying in Europe, there aren't many here, like 3. It's an interesting proposition and IMHO the future of GA. Inexpensive (comparatively), economical, fast and looks like a blast to fly. I can tell you more about the process of how you get one here if you are interested. https://jmbaircraft.com/newsroom/2020/flight-tests-of-915-successfully-completed/

So the Encore is the prime candidate. I sent an email to Gmax a couple of weeks ago to Jim and he put me "on the list". I  also sent a note to Don Maxwell. I'm trying a little direct marketing too but from my business experience, that's usually a waste of time and money. 

So I'll just keep lurking in the wirings and see what happens. Thanks again for all your suggestions and advice and I'll keep pushing the bro to join the party. 

db

[Paul_Havelka]

21 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Out camping in the Rocky Mountains this weekend, is what we've been up to  As @Parker_Woodruff said, my 252 is at SWTA in Smithville, TX for an annual, engine overhaul, and Encore conversion. I'm looking forward to 220 HP and 1100 lbs UL when it's all finished. Hopefully before Christmas.

Any 252 with a serial number of 25-1000 or later should be eligible for the Encore conversion. It's still not a factory Encore of which only 36 or so were produced. They all have the late 90's interiors which are really nice. But nothing Hector in at AeroComfort in San Antonio can't remedy. 

A nice factory Encore will likely cost you $225K or more. A nice 252 can be had for a bit less than that. The conversion costs between $15K and $50K depending on how involved you are. Show up with all the parts in your possession, during an annual and engine overhaul, and you'll be on the lower end of that. Drop the 252 off at a shop and say you'll be back for your Encore in a few weeks, and you'll be on the higher end.

Finding the right 252 and converting it to an Encore can be a good investment. As you've discovered, they are rare and rarely come up for sale. Some say they are the best model Mooney ever produced. I know my 252 is quite a special traveling machine, with the only disadvantage being sub 900 lb useful load. The Encore conversion will solve that. She regularly does 190 knots true up in the flight levels sipping gas at less than 10 gph.

Come on Paul!!!!!  I know you have a crush on @Parker_Woodruff but at least give me the credit for bringing you in since @carusoamfell asleep on the job and forgot to.

 

Looking forward to seeing your AC when you get it back.  Should be like a brand new mooney

[gsxrpilot]

25 minutes ago, Paul_Havelka said:

Come on Paul!!!!!  I know you have a crush on @Parker_Woodruff but at least give me the credit for bringing you in since @carusoamfell asleep on the job and forgot to.

 

Looking forward to seeing your AC when you get it back.  Should be like a brand new mooney

Yes, full credit for sure.  

But you know, back when I first joined MooneySpace, @Parker_Woodruff was getting a 252 converted to an Encore. I was buying an M20C. I've been dreaming of than Encore ever since then.

[carusoam]

Looks like I missed a wake up call... now I have to talk to Siri... 

-a-

[GaryP1007]

What is the max useful load on a 252?  

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, GaryP1007 said:

What is the max useful load on a 252?  

Most 252's are between 750 and 900 lbs useful load. The gross weight is 2900 lbs. The encore conversion raises the gross weight to 3130 lbs. 

I've been working to get mine as close to 900 lbs as I can get it. Then the Encore conversion will get me over 1100 lbs useful.

[Johnny_SA]

See my AMO has one on their website

http://www.mooney.airmoon.co.za/aircraft-sales/show-ad/35/1998-mooney-m20k-encore/used/

[carusoam]

Let’s tell @DavidB his bird just came available...   in SA 

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

18 hours ago, Johnny_SA said:

See my AMO has one on their website

http://www.mooney.airmoon.co.za/aircraft-sales/show-ad/35/1998-mooney-m20k-encore/used/

That Encore was sold to a pilot in Italy recently.

[DavidB]

Thanks for looking. I called Philippe there a couple of weeks ago. It had gone under contract three days before my call.

It was an interesting, if ultimately theoretical exercise on SkyVector trying to determine how it could be flown back to the States. If you're curious it is CAPA (Port Alfred SA) to KAVL. 7,388.8 miles direct so if you want to stop along the way for things like fuel or a whiz then it's a LONG way. An especially long way to go in an unknown aircraft. 

The hunt continues... 

[LANCECASPER]

17 hours ago, DavidB said:

Thanks for looking. I called Philippe there a couple of weeks ago. It had gone under contract three days before my call.

It was an interesting, if ultimately theoretical exercise on SkyVector trying to determine how it could be flown back to the States. If you're curious it is CAPA (Port Alfred SA) to KAVL. 7,388.8 miles direct so if you want to stop along the way for things like fuel or a whiz then it's a LONG way. An especially long way to go in an unknown aircraft. 

The hunt continues... 

@CFII (Brian Lloyd) might have been willing to be hired to fly it back for you. He flew his M20K (231) around the world in 2017. He crossed from Brazil across the Atlantic to West Africa (Senegal). That would probably have been the shortest route to bring the Encore back to North Carolina.

http://projectameliaearhart.org/tracker/map.php

[DavidB]

50 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

@CFII (Brian Lloyd) might have been willing to be hired to fly it back for you. He flew his M20K (231) around the world in 2017. He crossed from Brazil across the Atlantic to West Africa (Senegal). That would probably have been the shortest route to bring the Encore back to North Carolina.

http://projectameliaearhart.org/tracker/map.php

I sailed around the world in the 80's in a 33' sailboat and certainly think that a Mooney would do the job a lot more quickly. I've pondered doing it in an aircraft. But first I need the plane! 

[Mcstealth]

4 hours ago, DavidB said:

I sailed around the world in the 80's in a 33' sailboat and certainly think that a Mooney would do the job a lot more quickly. I've pondered doing it in an aircraft. But first I need the plane! 

Well, a plane would help. Hehehehe

[MarkD34M]

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/198606109/1998-mooney-m20k-encore-piston-single-aircraft

[DavidB]

Yeah,  I saw that about an hour after it was posted. Called the owner, sounded good, made plans to go see it this weekend but some razor called after and sent him a deposit so bye bye birdie. Clearly a hot market. Oh well. No fault to the seller or the buyer. Just more aggressive. I guess I like to look before I leap. 

[Danb]

Paul what is the ETA on your encore conversion, you’ve got to be seriously jittery waiting on your plane..

[carusoam]

5 hours ago, DavidB said:

Yeah,  I saw that about an hour after it was posted. Called the owner, sounded good, made plans to go see it this weekend but some razor called after and sent him a deposit so bye bye birdie. Clearly a hot market. Oh well. No fault to the seller or the buyer. Just more aggressive. I guess I like to look before I leap. 

Usually, one gets away...

The second time... you have all your ducks ready.  

Once you buy your plane... there will be another guy equally surprised by how fast you were able to move...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[larryb]

When I bought my Encore it was 1000 miles away. The logbooks were posted in Controller by the dealer. I downloaded and reviewed every page. Then I called the dealer. We negotiated a bit on price/terms. He e-mailed me a sales contract which I signed and then wired the deposit. The sales contract had a key provision, if I was not satisfied after inspecting in person and the inspection flight I could back out and get my deposit back. All of this happened in a single morning. Sometime later they received a backup offer. I actually did not see it until after the PPI/Annual. And of course, there were a few issues like inop O2 shutoff valve, O2 leaks, intermittent oil temp gauge, fuel gauge on one side that didn't go above 1/2, etc. that were all missed by the local MSC PPI/Annual. I discovered these details in my transition training, but by then the airplane was mine.  The shop did spend time to try to resolve these before I left town, but ultimately I had to deal with them when I got home. I knew things wouldn't be perfect, but by then I just wanted to get out of there and on my way home. Despite the glitches, it was a good experience. But yes, I had to move fast and I had to risk money without seeing it first in person. 

[gsxrpilot]

18 hours ago, Danb said:

Paul what is the ETA on your encore conversion, you’ve got to be seriously jittery waiting on your plane..

The hold up at the moment is the engine shop. All the engine shops are way behind. And Jewell is in the same boat. Hopefully they'll start on my engine right after Thanksgiving. 

I try to be understanding and keep telling myself this was expected. 

But I am excited about getting back an Encore, with a fresh and strong engine, and some other upgrades. Hector is doing the glare shield, vacuum speed brakes are being replaced with electric, panel mount compass, and a few other minor squawks.

[Danb]

That’s going to be sweet and special. Arguably the best Mooney made luckily you’ll put it to good use.

[Oldguy]

21 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

vacuum speed brakes are being replaced with electric,

Are you able to utilize the existing openings or have to punch new ones?

[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Are you able to utilize the existing openings or have to punch new ones?

We're using the existing openings. 

[kortopates]

The hold up at the moment is the engine shop. All the engine shops are way behind. And Jewell is in the same boat. Hopefully they'll start on my engine right after Thanksgiving. 
I try to be understanding and keep telling myself this was expected. 
But I am excited about getting back an Encore, with a fresh and strong engine, and some other upgrades. Hector is doing the glare shield, vacuum speed brakes are being replaced with electric, panel mount compass, and a few other minor squawks.

So brakes are dual puck brake upgrade done?
Out of curiosity, what role would Jewell as an engine shop have?
Will be very interested to see how speed brake upgrade looks from top and bottom! I have yet to see one.


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