M20J IO-360 Oil Quick Drain

[PT20J]

I noticed recently that my oil quick drain has started to show a drop of oil at the outlet every so often. It's not a lot, but oil leaks never seem to get better. The parts catalog lists a BJ1000A4J. Anyone know if these are rebuildable and, if so, what o-rings they use? Has anyone replaced theirs with a Saf-Air P5000? Thanks,

Skip

[EricJ]

I have a Saf-air P5000, two actually.   There was one on my airplane when I bought it, and I replaced it with a new one thinking it was leaking.   There are rebuild kits for the saf-airs, so I did that with the old one, which is now a spare. 

Overkill, but functional. 

[Skates97]

I had one on my plane and when it was leaking I replaced it with the F50. 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/saf_airF62.php?clickkey=5469

The only thing you have to do is make sure you don't lose the F50-180 which you screw on to drain the oil. (It comes with the F50 when you buy it). The benefit is once you unscrew it the valve is closed, and as second backup to a leak there is a cap that screws onto the F50 when not draining the oil which will seal it if the internal valve starts to leak. 

[Mooneymite]

Years ago when I was returning an engine core, I could not remove the quick drain.  It had "become one" with the engine.  Ever since that experience, I apply anti-seize to the threads when installing a quick drain.

[rotorman]

On 9/19/2020 at 10:13 PM, EricJ said:

I have a Saf-air P5000, two actually.   There was one on my airplane when I bought it, and I replaced it with a new one thinking it was leaking.   There are rebuild kits for the saf-airs, so I did that with the old one, which is now a spare. 

Overkill, but functional. 

I have a leak in mine as well. It looks just like the Saf-air but red in color. It's been with the airplane for a long time, maybe as early as 1992. I'd like to rebuild it if it is a Saf-air. Is it obvious how it comes apart? I found a rebuild kit for 8 bucks and would like to give it a shot at the next oil change.

[N201MKTurbo]

At the engine shop they use a propane torch to get the stuck fittings out....

They say it is an acquired skill. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by N201MKTurbo

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, rotorman said:

I have a leak in mine as well. It looks just like the Saf-air but red in color. It's been with the airplane for a long time, maybe as early as 1992. I'd like to rebuild it if it is a Saf-air. Is it obvious how it comes apart? I found a rebuild kit for 8 bucks and would like to give it a shot at the next oil change.

Yes, they're very simple to disassemble.  There's a retaining ring that secures the o-ring on the inner end, and removing that allows removal of the o-ring and then the two pieces will separate.   It's pretty obvious when you see it.   The rebuild kits include a new retaining ring, iirc.

 

[ArtVandelay]

At the engine shop they use a propane torch to get the stuck fittings out....
They say it is an acquired skill. 

I assume they heat the engine, not the drain.

[jlunseth]

Time for my quick drain story, now several years ago. Was headed for a Mooney PPP in Niagara. A few days before, we had noticed a single drop of oil on the nose tire, where there had been none before. During pre-flight, that drop was back. I had the FBO pull the aircraft into the shop to specifically look at the leak. I told them we would be going eastward, over Lake Michigan, probably at night or partially at night, and I wanted to know that there was no oil leak. Their diagnosis was that the quick drain was leaking, and they told me not to worry, that quick drains just do that.

We made it to the eastern side of Lk. Michigan, at which point the oil pressure, which usually reads around 38 psi at cruise, fell to 14. I knew immediately we had lost oil and were in danger of seizing the engine. The problem was that we were at 19k with very strong tailwinds, at least 75 knots and sometime more as I recall, and we were being blown out over the next great lake at about 231 kts, which would have been Huron. I declared an emergency with Canadian ATC, they gave me London ONT which was only about 20 miles away, and I began a rapid descent. I throttled the engine back thinking I might be able to save it just in case I needed some power to make the runway. We entered the back side of a front and about 7,000 feet of the descent was in IMC, on instruments. It was more like a dive, I had the ASI pegged and was watching NE speed. About half way through the clouds I realized I had no idea what the terrain was like and whether we were over some high elevations, so got the ground level from ATC, we were ok.

It was a little disconcerting when I tipped the nose over to start the dive and the OP went to 6. I knew that was going to happen when the oil flowed away from the intake, but it was still disconcerting.

When we broke out, the way I found the airport was the lights on the crash trucks on both side of the runway. I was really lucky, the dive worked out perfectly and I was able to glide to a spot perfect landing. The crash trucks followed us down the runway. At the ramp we found oil dripping off the entire undercarriage. The fire chief held out his hand and said "Nice landing, Captain." I am not a captain of anything, but maybe I deserved that one.

In the shop the next day it turned out that a very small but long sliver of plastic swimming around in the oil had entered the quick drain but could not pass through. It lodged where the quick drain seals up, and when the engine was operated, the compression was blowing oil out. It turned out there was another, larger piece of rubber that the A&P though might have come from a gasket when a cylinder was installed. It was about 3/4" in diameter. The A&P in Canada surmised that when the oil got low enough, that plugged the quick drain inlet, so I had about 2 qts. left in the engine and the engine was put back into service, I went to the PPP.

I learned that quick drains get "kits" installed periodically to make the seal work. I also learned it is a very good idea to have your A&P periodically, like at annual, pull the quick drain and let the oil drain out through the big hole to vacate any "swimmers." Have been doing that regularly ever since.

That is not the whole story, the other half was how we got back into the US without passports or eAPIS codes, involving a landing between an Embraer and a 737, a tale for another day. The moral of the story is, yeah, your quick drain needs to be regularly maintained and periodically rebuilt. The "tail" to the story was that, in the nonpowered descent I probably had some piston slap going on, so I eventually had the engine IRANd, which was painful at the time, but the thing is nearly 200 hours over TBO now and still going strong.

Lessons learned. BTW, my oil usage even in an engine at TBO is now about 1 qt. in 35 hours.

[Will.iam]

Wow 1 qt in 35 hours. I’m lucky to get 1  qt in 10 hours. At the 6 qt level. And one qt in 1 hour if i fill it up to 7 qt on the dip stick. Speaking of dipsticks mine seems to be off by a qt. 8 qt plus one pint camgard go in and only 7 shows on the stick. Last change i did 7 qts plus 1 pint of camgard and it shows 6 on the stick. To get 8 qts to show on the dipstick i would have to add 9 qts and 1 pint of camgard. I know the oil filter takes filling up but it only holds about a pints worth. Where does the rest go?  And i know you have to wait like 48 hours to get a true reading as checking right after shutdown I’m showing another .75 qt lower than what it shows 24 hours later. 

[rotorman]

18 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Wow 1 qt in 35 hours. I’m lucky to get 1  qt in 10 hours. At the 6 qt level. And one qt in 1 hour if i fill it up to 7 qt on the dip stick. Speaking of dipsticks mine seems to be off by a qt. 8 qt plus one pint camgard go in and only 7 shows on the stick. Last change i did 7 qts plus 1 pint of camgard and it shows 6 on the stick. To get 8 qts to show on the dipstick i would have to add 9 qts and 1 pint of camgard. I know the oil filter takes filling up but it only holds about a pints worth. Where does the rest go?  And i know you have to wait like 48 hours to get a true reading as checking right after shutdown I’m showing another .75 qt lower than what it shows 24 hours later. 

Notice that the dipstick is not linear. 8-6 quarts is about the same length on the stick as 4-0.  But 6-4 is different. I thought they gave me the wrong dipstick when I got the rebuilt engine because I never noticed this. But the rebuilder assured me this is the way they are. 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, rotorman said:

Notice that the dipstick is not linear. 8-6 quarts is about the same length on the stick as 4-0.  But 6-4 is different. I thought they gave me the wrong dipstick when I got the rebuilt engine because I never noticed this. But the rebuilder assured me this is the way they are. 

 

Above about 6qts the oil level reached the bottom of the crank case.   Adding additional oil submerges the bottom of the case so that part of the case displaces where oil would normally be.   The additional oil goes up through weep holes in the bottom of the case and is then on the crankshaft side of the case bottom, where it is subject to getting churned up by the crankshaft windage.    This is why more than 6qts is more easily blown out of the breather and also why the space between 6 and 8 is larger on the dipstick.

 

[jlunseth]

3 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Wow 1 qt in 35 hours. I’m lucky to get 1  qt in 10 hours. At the 6 qt level. And one qt in 1 hour if i fill it up to 7 qt on the dip stick. Speaking of dipsticks mine seems to be off by a qt. 8 qt plus one pint camgard go in and only 7 shows on the stick. Last change i did 7 qts plus 1 pint of camgard and it shows 6 on the stick. To get 8 qts to show on the dipstick i would have to add 9 qts and 1 pint of camgard. I know the oil filter takes filling up but it only holds about a pints worth. Where does the rest go?  And i know you have to wait like 48 hours to get a true reading as checking right after shutdown I’m showing another .75 qt lower than what it shows 24 hours later. 

During the IRAN the rocker covers were replaced, that was a source of the loss. But that quick drain was the major reason. Probably had been leaking for some time.

[Yetti]

18 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I assume they heat the engine, not the drain.

There was some gunk holding mine on Wich seemed like Permatex. Used a heat gun on the drain since that was the outer part.