m20b New Pilot looking to build 1500 in 1961 M20B

[Kb Brar]

I am a New pilot with 45 hours on the Logbook. My dream /Goal is to complete IFR , CPL and ATP with 1500 Hours . my Business now is not going to allow me the CFI rout  or wait for an aircraft becoming available from the school , so I just have to fly around to build hours , may be 2-3 years 

Does any one have any personal experience in doing this. 

I am buying a 1961 M20B

Total Time Since New: 5200 hours

Engine Time:

1368 SFOH 

Engine

1350 Since Factory Overhaul

Avionics

Aspen PRO PFD 1000
GTN-750
Apollo SL-30
GDL88 – ADS-B IN & OUT
GTX-327
S-TEC Autopilot single-axis
JPI EDM 900 Engine Monitor 

I hope I am in the right direction,  Fist I would like some advise on the Aircraft I am looking at and secondly I need a CFII who can train me in my plane. Airport KFAT or KFCH. 

[carusoam]

Doing what?  

Gather time while flying your own plane?

It sounds like you have two options...

1) Get it done...  costs more. Doesn’t involve other people...

2) Do it while somebody else pays to learn how to fly from you.  Takes longer...involves other people...

 

(See if you can clear up what your goals are)

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

Given your clearly stated goal of building time in your own plane since your business won't allow for the CFI route, I think your choice of a short body Mooney is a good one.

While I don't have personal experience, I did consider buying a Mooney from a guy that had done EXACTLY what you propose: he bought a short body Mooney and flew the Hell out of it to build his time.  He was selling since he had just landed his first airline job (RJs, of course).  IIRC, he took 2-3 years to do it (had a family and decent job, so the CFI route wasn't for him, either.  10-15 hours a week will do it.

Personally, if I was young and wanting to gain experience for a pilot career, I think this is a far, far better way than being a CFI doing the same thing over and over.  This guy flew that Mooney all over the country, and looked for flyable IMC (no TS or icing).  Heck, I quit using CFIs at flight schools for my IPCs since most of them will NOT fly in IMC; heck, some won't even file IFR!  Seems to me he had far better and broader experience than any 1500 hour CFI coming from a flight school (especially those in southern California or Arizona!)

[Kb Brar]

I opted for Option One ,

I calculated 1500 Hours at $130/Hour $195,000 or About 9000 Gallons  of fuel  or $54000 in fuel price and $141,000 in rental cost . 

If I buy one for $80000 At least at the end I will b left with a $50000 aircraft . 

I hope my math is not off by a lot . 

I have not counted the Insurance and repairs etc. 

[Kb Brar]

3 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Given your clearly stated goal of building time in your own plane since your business won't allow for the CFI route, I think your choice of a short body Mooney is a good one.

While I don't have personal experience, I did consider buying a Mooney from a guy that had done EXACTLY what you propose: he bought a short body Mooney and flew the Hell out of it to build his time.  He was selling since he had just landed his first airline job (RJs, of course).  IIRC, he took 2-3 years to do it (had a family and decent job, so the CFI route wasn't for him, either.  10-15 hours a week will do it.

Personally, if I was young and wanting to gain experience for a pilot career, I think this is a far, far better way than being a CFI doing the same thing over and over.  This guy flew that Mooney all over the country, and looked for flyable IMC (no TS or icing).  Heck, I quit using CFIs at flight schools for my IPCs since most of them will NOT fly in IMC; heck, some won't even file IFR!  Seems to me he had far better and broader experience than any 1500 hour CFI coming from a flight school (especially those in southern California or Arizona!)

the school I fly from just takes me round and round , really hard to make a schedule with them and CFIs don't know a dam thing. 

Thanks for your encouragement . 

 

[carusoam]

Repairs will be minimal... as the annual covers most maintenance....

Unless something really breaks....

We have an insurance guy around here... look for Parker...

Be nice to everyone... I know some CFIs that know some damn things...
 

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

the school I fly from just takes me round and round , really hard to make a schedule with them and CFIs don't know a dam thing. 

Thanks for your encouragement . 

 

You need to find better CFIs!  To be fair, they usually don't reside at your typical flight school; a good one is worth a damn sight more than Ramen wages!  You WILL pay more, but you need to seek out a seasoned CFI.  Further, you'll probably have to; most flight schools won't train you in your own plane.  Typically, this is due to their insurance requirements.

First year, you're going to be looking at several thousand a year for insurance.

I fly a little under 100 hours per year in my M20F and I'm running right around $15K per year, ALL in.  And, I mean EVERYTHING: I track shop towels and spark plug washer costs!  I'm sure maintenance would go up a bit if I flew 500 hours per year, but a good estimate would be to just add in fuel and oil.  Running LOP I can dial back to 8 gph.

Good luck!

[Kb Brar]

Just now, MikeOH said:

You need to find better CFIs!  To be fair, they usually don't reside at your typical flight school; a good one is worth a damn sight more than Ramen wages!  You WILL pay more, but you need to seek out a seasoned CFI.  Further, you'll probably have to; most flight schools won't train you in your own plane.  Typically, this is due to their insurance requirements.

First year, you're going to be looking at several thousand a year for insurance.

I fly a little under 100 hours per year in my M20F and I'm running right around $15K per year, ALL in.  And, I mean EVERYTHING: I track shop towels and spark plug washer costs!  I'm sure maintenance would go up a bit if I flew 500 hours per year, but a good estimate would be to just add in fuel and oil.  Running LOP I can dial back to 8 gph.

Good luck!

LOP is a great suggestion , I am not in any rush to get some where , just to build time. The plane have very fancy Radios in and Mid age engine, any tips on getting 4000 hour from it or may be 3800 LOL 

 

[MikeOH]

6 minutes ago, Kb Brar said:

LOP is a great suggestion , I am not in any rush to get some where , just to build time. The plane have very fancy Radios in and Mid age engine, any tips on getting 4000 hour from it or may be 3800 LOL 

 

Be aware that with the carbureted engine in a M20B you may not be able to run LOP, but worth a try.

I'm coming up on 2400 hours SMOH, crossing my fingers!  I bought as a run-out (2100 SMOH), so I'm not too worried about the cost of an OH.  I think 3500 or more is bit unrealistic, however!  Read some of Mike Busch's stuff; I believe he went 3300 hours on his engines.

[carusoam]

Good news...

• you can fly for hours at very low power settings... Going 90mph... Approach speed.
• The day you want to go somewhere... press the throttle all the way in, and go 150mph... Cruise speed.

MS has a few pilots that started as Mooney pilots, then went to fly commercial...
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

In one of those if you really want to build time, I'd buy one of those and just pull the power back and cruise at 120 knots. My guess is you'd be using give or take 5 to 6 gallons per hour to do that. When you put the 1450 hours on the plane, and you keep it in the condition it is, I have no doubt you'll be able to get at least 70 grand for it. The avionics are worth that alone. I'd say do a prebuy, if all goes well buy it and fly the hell out of it. When you get your 1500 hours, you might realize you want to keep it. 1500 hours worth of travel brings a lot of good memories. and some bad ones too, but flying a Mooney for travel is so much better than flying a 172.

 

[ChrisV]

26 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I'd buy one of those and just pull the power back and cruise at 120 knots.

I too am looking to build hours for a possible later life, flying job.  And i have found that flying slow is difficult in a J.  Because flying faster, seeing more places is way more fun.  On a few flights I have pulled back power and comfortably cruised at ~7 GPH.

[ArtVandelay]

I would just fly higher if I wanted lower fuel burn.

[Schinderhannes]

12 hours ago, Kb Brar said:

I am a New pilot with 45 hours on the Logbook. My dream /Goal is to complete IFR , CPL and ATP with 1500 Hours . my Business now is not going to allow me the CFI rout  or wait for an aircraft becoming available from the school , so I just have to fly around to build hours , may be 2-3 years 

Does any one have any personal experience in doing this. 

I am buying a 1961 M20B

Total Time Since New: 5200 hours

Engine Time:

1368 SFOH 

Engine

1350 Since Factory Overhaul

Avionics

Aspen PRO PFD 1000
GTN-750
Apollo SL-30
GDL88 – ADS-B IN & OUT
GTX-327
S-TEC Autopilot single-axis
JPI EDM 900 Engine Monitor 

I hope I am in the right direction,  Fist I would like some advise on the Aircraft I am looking at and secondly I need a CFII who can train me in my plane. Airport KFAT or KFCH. 

This must be the best equipped “B” In the fleet. I would love to see pictures.

[Raptor05121]

I did exactly that. I bought my D model at 80TT and I'm at almost 1200 (Part 135 IFR mins). I built 650 hours in my Mooney before getting a first job in Cessnas for survey. I did my IFR, commercial, and about to take my CFI ride in her. It's a VERY pleasurable experience and it teaches you A LOT. My DPE has commented on how proficient I am with the aircraft versus most people who bring rentals that they have only a handful of hours in. I am trying to stay humble, but all of my coworkers are children of Part 141 "pilot mills" and I'm appalled at their lack of real-life GA experience (one employee has over 1,000 hours and has never used a self-serve fuel pump, for example). It will teach you real-life knowledge you cannot get anywhere else, but at a hefty price. If you like adventures while climbing the 1500 ladder, DO IT.

[steingar]

Says me if you really want hours buy a Cessna 150.  You'll get hours, lots of them.

[MBDiagMan]

I think your plan is fine.  A B isn’t the fastest, but guess what? You build time by the hour not by the mile.  When you get to 1500 you will have most all your time complex.  It ain’t be turbine time, but it should get the job done.

just keep it in the air, learn and enjoy yourself.  Wish I were young enough to do this.

[Hank]

With 1500 Mooney hours, you will have gone places that Cessna drivers only dream about. Even a B should cruise at 50% faster than most rental Skyhawks and almost double most 150/152s. But you can also slow down and cruise with them. It's your choice.

1500 hrs x 100 knots = 150,000 nm

1500 hrs x 145 knots = 217,500 nm

and the Mooney will use less fuel for the same trips . . . .

[ZuluZulu]

6 hours ago, steingar said:

Says me if you really want hours buy a Cessna 150.  You'll get hours, lots of them.

And if this is what you're looking for, check BeechTalk often.  There have been some pretty good-looking examples lately listed for reasonable prices.

[BKlott]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:23 PM, Kb Brar said:

I opted for Option One ,

I calculated 1500 Hours at $130/Hour $195,000 or About 9000 Gallons  of fuel  or $54000 in fuel price and $141,000 in rental cost . 

If I buy one for $80000 At least at the end I will b left with a $50000 aircraft . 

I hope my math is not off by a lot . 

I have not counted the Insurance and repairs etc. 

Did you factor in the cost of an engine overhaul? 1350 + 1500 = 2850 hours.

How many hours on the prop?

 

[Kb Brar]

On 8/28/2020 at 7:38 PM, BKlott said:

Did you factor in the cost of an engine overhaul? 1350 + 1500 = 2850 hours.

How many hours on the prop?

 

300ish that I know off, My Understanding is Engines can go well over TBO , and so far I have not been able to Figure out that Cost of TBO  but my guess is 25K . 

If I can get 1200-1500 Hours from that engine it would be Awesome but If I have to repair it, then I will just bite it like a Man lol 

 

I will really love to know How much I can sell this back into the market with 0 hour Engine . 

[59Moonster]

Since it hasn't been mentioned. Since you are going the CFI route. Just remember that you can't rent out and instruct in your plane unless you are also doing 100 hours on it.

My biggest recommendation is check insurance rates first!!!!

Also, did I catch that right that you are spending $80k for an M20B?

[carusoam]

Kb,

Looks like you are on the right track...

Your financial skills are pretty sharp...

Keep working your numbers with the most factual ones you can get...

Keep notes on what things cost...

• Engine OH
• Prop OH
• Paint maintenance...
• Interior updates
• instrument panel updates

Know your yearly costs...

• Annual inspection
• 100 hour inspection if you use your plane for instruction or other commercial activity
• hangar or tie-down
• insurance

know your ops costs...

• Fuel
• oil
• O2
• wash and wax....

PP thoughts only, not a full list...

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

4 hours ago, 59Moonster said:

Since it hasn't been mentioned. Since you are going the CFI route. Just remember that you can't rent out and instruct in your plane unless you are also doing 100 hours on it.

My biggest recommendation is check insurance rates first!!!!

Also, did I catch that right that you are spending $80k for an M20B?

OMG!  I missed that!!

If true, buying that B would be HUGE mistake.

[robert7467]

I will sell you my C model for $120k!