Arrow Fine - Mooney Better

[Seth]

Last weekend I had planned to make my first true use of the new Missile and fly to Knoxville, TN from the DC area for a wedding.  That did not occur.  The engine overhaul was not completed on time.  The Missile is still sitting up in Minnesota.  I cannot wait to get my plane down to Maryland.

I was left with the following options:

1.  Drive 8-10 hours each way

2.  Airlines 

3.  Rent a plane

So I got checked out in a Piper Arrow PA28R-200 and flew it 6.7 hours last weekend.  My former 67F would have been faster, and the Missile would have been even better, but, the Arrow was okay.  I could have taken a 172, but I figured for the price and speed, the Arrow made more sense (I would have gotten more hours, but time is important, plus bathroom breaks, girlfriend on board, flying with the wheels not sticking out in the wind .  I would have taken a 182, as that way I could save the expense of the checkout flight (I'm already checked out in one) but the two airports I tend to fly out of do not have one on the line anymore (the one I used to fly no longer exists - it crashed due to engine failure for an undetermined reason in high turbulance - both occupants survived the forced landing)

Also, when all was said and done, at the block rental rate, once you consider airport parking fees and long taxi rides or a rental car, and two airline tickets, it was nearly a wash between the renting the Arrow or flying commerical.  Except for the checkout and instruction - but I feel it made sense to get checked out in another type of aircraft.  Plus, the instruction was worth it. 

The Arrow is not a bad plane - the Mooney is better.  My girlfriend had only flown in the Mooney at that point, and much preffered it to the Arrow - which made me happy - A former girlfriend felt the Mooney was a bit tight.   It has the same IO-360 as the M20E, M20F, and M20J Mooneys, so that's familiar.  It is much more forgiving on the landings, has longer gear, and better prop clearence.  The wings looked clunky comparted to the smooth wings of a Mooney and throttle quadrent was different, but fine.  It also drops like a ROCK with no power.  My goodness, I felt like I was diving at the runway when the instructor pulled the power, but my airspeed was only 90 knots.  The Mooney's glide so much better.  I was able to fly VFR with flight following, though I could have gone IFR and did practice a GPS approach with the instructor - I had already made the decision that if the weather looked bad, we'd fly somewhere else and then land and drive over, as my personal minimims were increased and I was not as comfortable in the Piper.  I was however able to land at W00 with no problem whatsoever (short runway as mentioned in the other post today).

It is good to know that if your plane is not availalbe, you can walk to the FBO, rent a plane, and be off.  Great country.

Take care,

-Seth

 

 

[N9937c]

I think the saying goes somthing like " I had rather push my Mooney than Fly a Piper" !

Maybe that was motorcycles. Can't remember.

larry

[John Pleisse]

I enjoy knowing you have formulated deep insights of Mooney comfort and handling from not one, but two different girl friends. I sense Seth, the only pig you have flown with.......IS an Arrow.....

[rbridges]

I was flying a cherokee (the slower cousin of the slow arrow) before my C model, and I love flying the mooney 100x better.

[dougmilam]

The only time the better glide of the Mooney is a problem is on those pesky commercial 360 degree power off landings to a point +/- 200 feet.  When I was a Cherokee 6 owner I never complained about being kept too high by ATC !

[DaV8or]

I have hundreds of hours in the Arrow IV and I concur. It's an OK airplane. The Mooney is a great airplane. The only things I can think of where the Arrow is superior is in footwell space, a little better visability and easier baggage loading. However, the Mooney makes it easier to stack baggage, so perhaps it's a wash.

[N9937c]

I have a buddy that has a Turbo Arrow. Upon seeing my Mooney he asks about the speedbrakes. He said " What does the Arrow use for Speedbrakes?"

My reply was " It's wing"

larry

[Gone]

I got my license in 1987 in a Cherokee 140 "Commuter."  As has been stated, it flew like a rock with the power off.  I learned to put it down at one end of the hash marks on the runway and stop it before it came to the other end of the same hash marks. In my opinion, a better trainer than the 150/2, 172 types normally flown for ab initio training today.

Today, the shortest rollout I can manage in my E model under normal wind conditions, when all the stars are aligned correctly, is about 300 feet.  Speed control.  Speed control. And then more speed control.

But back to our friend, the Arrow.  I was in parnership with 10 others on a 1969 Arrow that had the 180 horse fuel injected engine.  I groundlooped it in 2003 and I learned then that I would never again own a retractable gear aircraft that worked on hydraulics or electrics.  That is one of the biggest reasons I chose my Mooney.  That and the fact for only 60% of the cost of our Arrow, I would own (myself only) an aircraft that cruised 25 knots faster than the Arrow and had the same useful load.

So... (our) Arrow was fine (except for the gear thing), but the (my) Mooney is way better.

[PTK]

Flat plate area for 201 is 2.81 sq. ft. smallest of all GA. For Arrow it's 4.64 sq. ft.  Mooney way better!

[ToddDPT]

My uncle has a turbo Arrow based out of KABQ.  Last summer my wife and I flew over to visit and he had never been in a Mooney before.  We took off out of KABQ in our J and he could not believe the performance with this normally aspirated plane as we quickly climbed over the Sandias. He was impressed.

The link below is a good article comparing the turbo arrow to the J.

http://www.planecheck.com/turboarrow.htm

[carusoam]

PK,

 

Where did you find the flat plate data?

 

I am interested in the info for the M20R.

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[PTK]

There was an article on the internet somewhere. I found the same article at

http://www.mooneyland.com/Why%20I%20Own%20a%20Mooney.htm

It doesn't have the M20R but I heard it was around 6 sq. ft. !! (ha ha kidding!!)

It should be very very close to the 201, I would think, because it's the same frontal dimensions. Maybe the third prop blade adds a tiny bit.

[Seth]

"I enjoy knowing you have formulated deep insights of Mooney comfort and handling from not one, but two different girl friends. I sense Seth, the only pig you have flown with.......IS an Arrow....."

You crack me up.  Looking forward to showing you the Missile when it's finally ready. 

One more thing about this particular Piper Arrow - It was geared up by an instructor a few years back (yes with a student - and now the instructor does indeed work for the FAA), and hands off, it tended to roll off to the left and then eventually down.  So, even though I hand flew my 1967 M20F, it had a winge leveler and would fly straight and true - I could hand fly it hands off.  With the Arrow, we're talking 6.7 hours of pressure on the controls making sure it went straight - I would not purchase a plane that did not fly straight and true hands off. 

-Seth

 

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Seth

"I enjoy knowing you have formulated deep insights of Mooney comfort and handling from not one, but two different girl friends. I sense Seth, the only pig you have flown with.......IS an Arrow....."

You crack me up.  Looking forward to showing you the Missile when it's finally ready. 

One more thing about this particular Piper Arrow - It was geared up by an instructor a few years back (yes with a student - and now the instructor does indeed work for the FAA), and hands off, it tended to roll off to the left and then eventually down.  So, even though I hand flew my 1967 M20F, it had a winge leveler and would fly straight and true - I could hand fly it hands off.  With the Arrow, we're talking 6.7 hours of pressure on the controls making sure it went straight - I would not purchase a plane that did not fly straight and true hands off. 

-Seth

 

[jlunseth]

Just this weekend we flew from KFCM to Taos, NM in 6 hours, and back in 4 hours, in the glass smooth upper altitudes.  The trip required one ILS to about 550 AGL, two IMC climb outs, two IMC descents, one through cumuliform buildup over the Taos Mountains, and a final landing in winds 50 degrees off the nose 37G45.  13gph at cruise.  On the flight home with tailwinds at FL210 we saw GS cruise speeds of 245 kts, and speeds in our final descent slightly over 300 kts.  Try that in an Arrow.  I like the Arrow, I have flown a couple, but to me they are short hoppers.