Shawn26 Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Anyone recently removed the stock exhaust on a Mooney M20J for PowerFlow? I would like to hear your thoughts on the upgrade and performance! Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistarmo Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 1993 MSE. No improvement. Requires disassembly at annual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn26 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 1993 MSE. No improvement. Requires disassembly at annual. That’s what I also heard. No improvement on the J. But pre J, yes! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiplane Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 I did an M20F and it worked very nicely, improving the rate of climb and the cruise speed just as Powerflow claimed it would. Maintenance has been minimal, using nickel anti-seize on the slip joints is the key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcb Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 So how about an F with RayJay Turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 The Powerflow rep at MooneyMAX said that the J exhaust is pretty efficient and that there isn't much improvement to be had from a PF. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 Generally, around here... PF makes a great product... The exhaust pressure drop is better than stock... But... by the time the J came out... Things were onto phase two of improvements... 1) Intake was improved significantly... 2) Exhaust was improved as well... Then the PF was improved too... Their second version Is a better fit of the external pipe along the the side of the plane... At annual, there are lubrication points to be taken care of... if ignored something sticks and breaks... Many people opt for the PF when needing to replace a worn or broken exhaust system... A side issue to check on... there were discussions related to cabin heating... the Muff may be different in size... and the exhaust doesn’t stay as hot on the inside.... Old PP fuzzy memories... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 I'm curious: Most everyone that has Powerflow grumbles about how much of a pain it is to disassemble it every year to lubricate the slip joints. Has anyone NOT done this and noticed any problem (or not had any problem)? The reason I ask is that the stock system also has slip joints. Some people don't do any maintenance on these. A lot of mechanics squirt some mouse milk or Aerokroil in them whenever the cowling is off (that's what I do) and never have a problem. I had an issue with the tail pipe hitting the cowl flap and thought it was due to the ball joint binding. I took it apart and lubed it with C5-A (MIL-PRF-907F, latest version of what Powerflow calls for) and that made it rotate freely. Fifty hours later, I checked it and it was just as tight as before. So, I'm not convinced that the lubrication buys anything after a few hours. The only requirement to disassemble and lubricate annually I see is in the form of an ICA ,and ICAs are not required to be complied with for part 91 operations unless they show up in a limitations supplement to the AFM. So, I'm wondering if the Powerflow really needs this extra lubrication. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cferr59 Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 My Powerflow was not lubricated for the first 5 years of its life and nothing happened. It was lubricated last annual. I didn't personally take it apart, but it seems like it wouldn't be all that hard to do. How long does it actually take to do the lubrication? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adverseyaw Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 I've talked with two A&Ps who run MSCs, and two current Power Flow owners about their experience with PFs installed in M20Js. MSC A&P #1: half of owners like them, half of owners say it didn't make any improvement and isn't worth the money MSC A&P #2: most owners like them M20J w/ Power Flow owner #1: worthwhile, especially for improvement in CHTs (see links below) M20J w/ Power Flow owner #2: didn't make a huge difference, not worth the hassle From this small sample I agree with MSC A&P #1: half of M20J owners like them, half of owners say it's not worth it. Owner #1 did a great writeup on MS a while back. === BEFORE === === AFTER === 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechbum Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 On 6/4/2020 at 9:48 PM, PT20J said: I'm curious: Most everyone that has Powerflow grumbles about how much of a pain it is to disassemble it every year to lubricate the slip joints. Has anyone NOT done this and noticed any problem (or not had any problem)? The reason I ask is that the stock system also has slip joints. Some people don't do any maintenance on these. A lot of mechanics squirt some mouse milk or Aerokroil in them whenever the cowling is off (that's what I do) and never have a problem. I had an issue with the tail pipe hitting the cowl flap and thought it was due to the ball joint binding. I took it apart and lubed it with C5-A (MIL-PRF-907F, latest version of what Powerflow calls for) and that made it rotate freely. Fifty hours later, I checked it and it was just as tight as before. So, I'm not convinced that the lubrication buys anything after a few hours. The only requirement to disassemble and lubricate annually I see is in the form of an ICA ,and ICAs are not required to be complied with for part 91 operations unless they show up in a limitations supplement to the AFM. So, I'm wondering if the Powerflow really needs this extra lubrication. Skip The ICA has an airwothiness limitation section which must be complied with even for part 91. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiplane Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 People use a mixture of nickel anti-seize and Mouse Milk to wick into the slip joints at every oil change. It keeps the slip joints slipping, without the hassle of disassembly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Beechbum said: The ICA has an airwothiness limitation section which must be complied with even for part 91. This is correct. I noted this in another thread. The FAA-approved ICA document contains the text below. It is unusual for an ICA to include an airworthiness limitation; most manufacturers avoid that. However, this one does, and, since the limitation requires inspection of the joints after disassembly, applying lubricant externally won't satisfy the limitation. BTW, the reason for the quotation marks is that this is the exact text that the FAA requires be in an airworthiness limitation section of an ICA. 6.2 AIRWORTHINESS LIMITATIONS “The Airworthiness Limitations section is FAA approved and specifies maintenance required under §§43.16 and 91.403 of the Federal Aviation Regulations unless an alternative program has been FAA approved.” 6.2.1 Mandatory Replacement Time – None. Any collector assembly that is damaged and/or fails the pressure test described below must be rebuilt or replaced. 6.2.2 Structural Inspection Interval – At 100 hour or Annual intervals, depending on the service regime of the aircraft. WARNING: Carbon Monoxide gas present in exhaust gases can lead to pilot incapacitation and/or death. A damaged exhaust system has the potential to allow Carbon Monoxide into the aircraft cabin. To prevent such an occurrence, it is imperative that the exhaust system is inspected using the intervals and procedures described in this report. It is recommended that in-cabin carbon monoxide levels be measured periodically. Concentrations of greater than 50ppm Installation Instructions and Instructions for Continued Airworthiness Kit: PFS-16201(-GEN2) PFS-16150-00 Rev G Page 18 of 26 January 30, 2018 will require immediate exhaust system inspection and repair or replacement as necessary. 6.2.3 All slip joints must be disassembled and lubricated with a high-temperature anti-seize compound (MIL-A-907E or equivalent) at 500hr or Annual intervals (whichever comes first). While disassembled, inspect for wear or galling. This should be performed more frequently if headers seize between inspections. 6.2.4 Structural Inspection Procedure – See Section 6.6. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Leite Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 Dear Mooniacs In our 1998 M20J Allegro, s/n 24-3429, we installed in 2020 the Power Flow Exhaust System. I now realized that we still have the original and complete exhaust system, removed at 1.400hrs and 22years AirframeTT. Today I took the pictures in attach of the original Exhaust System that I keep in my garage. Do you think this is useful to you? If so, would you like to make an offer via PM?? Kind regards Fredi +351 910 690 093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, Costa Leite said: Dear Mooniacs In our 1998 M20J Allegro, s/n 24-3429, we installed in 2020 the Power Flow Exhaust System. I now realized that we still have the original and complete exhaust system, removed at 1.400hrs and 22years AirframeTT. Today I took the pictures in attach of the original Exhaust System that I keep in my garage. Do you think this is useful to you? If so, would you like to make an offer via PM?? Kind regards Fredi +351 910 690 093 I would like this. It I can’t get ahold of you with that number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, jetdriven said: I would like this. It I can’t get ahold of you with that number It appears to be in Portugal. Most cell phones will insert all the appropriate prefix info by inputting the "plus sign". On mine, I get the "plus sign" by holding down zero for a couple of seconds. Then dial the country code and the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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