Garmin GFC 500 Autopilot on M20J

[Shawn26]

  On 5/24/2020 at 4:05 AM, jonhop said:

[mention=16838]Shawn26[/mention], What are you doing with the KAP-150 once removed? I might be interested in some of the components. 

Sell it on eBay. About 18 month a go the flight computer KAP 150 was fixed by Mid-Continent Instruments and it comes with FAA authorization for the repair. The whole system works excellent. Never had any issues with the servos.


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[jonhop]

  On 5/24/2020 at 4:30 AM, Shawn26 said:

Sell it on eBay

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Let me know when listed. Maybe you'll get a sell. I'm specifically interested in the flight computer, as mine was repaired not too long ago but is still a little buggy. 

[HIghpockets]

I get the aural tone at 1000' to go and 200'  to go as well as flashing digits.

[Tim Jodice]

Why did you replace your KAP150 if it was working properly?

[Shawn26]

  On 5/25/2020 at 12:20 PM, airtim said:

Why did you replace your KAP150 if it was working properly?

I wanted to remove my vacuum system and install a second G5. KAP 150 will not work. Loosing your vacuum system in the soup is scary, I’ve been there


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[Tim Jodice]

I have a KFC150 do you know if that is the same? I was hoping to get rid of my vacuum system during a panel upgrade also.

[Shawn26]

Yes, they are the same! KAP or KCP 150 requires vacuum system. The autopilot works with your Bendix King Horizon Gyro. There is a module that you can install and remove your vacuum system, but I think it only works with Aspen. It’s about 2k for that module alone which transfer analog data to digital.


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[Bob - S50]

  On 5/25/2020 at 2:35 PM, Shawn26 said:

Yes, they are the same! KAP or KCP 150 requires vacuum system. The autopilot works with your Bendix King Horizon Gyro. There is a module that you can install and remove your vacuum system, but I think it only works with Aspen. It’s about 2k for that module alone which transfer analog data to digital.


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Or a Garmin GI275.  It will not give you 'native GPSS', but it will give you GPSS HDG emulation.  With the KFC150 it will even give you a flight director.  With the KAP150 it will not give you a flight director.

[Shawn26]

  On 5/25/2020 at 3:19 PM, Bob - S50 said:

Or a Garmin GI275.  It will not give you 'native GPSS', but it will give you GPSS HDG emulation.  With the KFC150 it will even give you a flight director.  With the KAP150 it will not give you a flight director.

I wouldn’t know. I already have a G5 HSI, so for me another G5 Ai is more symmetrical


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[Bob - S50]

  On 5/25/2020 at 7:36 PM, Shawn26 said:

I wouldn’t know. I already have a G5 HSI, so for me another G5 Ai is more symmetrical


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But a G5 will NOT run a KFC150 or a KAP150.

[gsxrpilot]

  On 5/25/2020 at 2:22 PM, airtim said:

I have a KFC150 do you know if that is the same? I was hoping to get rid of my vacuum system during a panel upgrade also.

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I have a KFC150 in my 252 and no vacuum system. (Well technically I still have a vacuum system but it's only connected to my speed brakes) Nothing in my panel is connected to vacuum.

My KFC150 is driven by an Aspen E1000 Pro with the EA100 analogue converter. This is also connected to an IFD540 WAAS GPS. It's a great system and I've never had any problems with the KFC150. No vacuum pump needed.

[Shawn26]

  On 5/26/2020 at 2:52 AM, gsxrpilot said:

I have a KFC150 in my 252 and no vacuum system. (Well technically I still have a vacuum system but it's only connected to my speed brakes) Nothing in my panel is connected to vacuum.
My KFC150 is driven by an Aspen E1000 Pro with the EA100 analogue converter. This is also connected to an IFD540 WAAS GPS. It's a great system and I've never had any problems with the KFC150. No vacuum pump needed.

I was leaning towards Aspen and the EA1000 last year before I install my G5 HSI. This would be a good system but the autopilot wouldn’t have a flight director.


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[gsxrpilot]

  On 5/26/2020 at 3:08 AM, Shawn26 said:

I was leaning towards Aspen and the EA1000 last year before I install my G5 HSI. This would be a good system but the autopilot wouldn’t have a flight director.

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Correct. The flight director is a function of the autopilot and the KAP150 doesn't have one. 

[Shawn26]

  On 5/26/2020 at 3:11 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Correct. The flight director is a function of the autopilot and the KAP150 doesn't have one. 

Don’t get me wrong. This is excellent setup and the flight director it’s not a huge thing for pilots trained to fly with old steam gauges and without any of this stuff! But I got to a point of my life that I like to have more redundancy and safety. Garmin GFC 500 autopilot has a lot to offer in my opinion.


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[carusoam]

it’s possible...

A lot can happen in 26years of electronics development...
 

A KAP150 was installed in my plane in 1994.

I wouldn’t look back if I got a GFC500... installed in 2020.
 

Sure... the KAP150 is very capable...

• holds altitude
• follows a heading
• Intercepts courses... from any angle...
• intercepts an ILS from either above or below...
• can climb Or descend at a set rate... In chunks of 100fpm...

With a GPSS and a WAAS source... nothing gets much better...

It even has a yaw damper available for it...

It is a very powerful digital device working with minimal memory... That has lasted a long time...

Best regards,

-a-

[Shawn26]

  On 5/26/2020 at 3:28 AM, carusoam said:

it’s possible...
A lot can happen in 26years of electronics development...
 
A KAP150 was installed in my plane in 1994.
I wouldn’t look back if I got a GFC500... installed in 2020.
 
Sure... the KAP150 is very capable...

• holds altitude
• follows a heading
• Intercepts courses...
• intercepts an ILS from either above or below...
• can climb Or descend at a set rate...

With a GPSS and a WAAS source... nothing gets much better...
It even has a yaw damper available for it...
It is a very powerful digital device working with minimal memory... That has lasted a long time...
Best regards,
-a-

That’s how I look at it when I set the budget for the installation of GFC 500!


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[donkaye]

  On 5/23/2020 at 7:31 AM, Niko182 said:

I'm flying an M20S, but you'll find that no matter what air frame it was installed on, everyone seems to love it. beechtalk has a ton of pireps on it too.

Here is the price of the entire GFC500 price layed out, because other people reading are probably curious about it
GFC500 AP control Panel: $2,800
GSA28 servo: 1400 x 4 = $5,600
Product Info Kit = $50
Basic Install Kit = $2,000
Pitch Trim Kit = $850
Yaw Damper Kit = $850
Labor for installation of GFC500 = $5,000
Labor for Yaw Damper = $800

Yaw Damper alone = 3,050
Total = $17,950

Definitely far from cheap, but you get what you pay for in the aviation world, and it is significantly better than the stec30 it replaced.
hope this helps

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If you don't already have a G5 you'll need to add the price of the G5 plus labor, too.

[Niko182]

  On 5/26/2020 at 5:44 AM, donkaye said:

If you don't already have a G5 you'll need to add the price of the G5 plus labor, too.

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Realistically 2 or a g3x and a g5

[rcwagner]

Just make sure your M20J is 100% M20J.  Mine was rebuilt with an M20L tail cone, and Garmin would not create an STC for my aircraft.  They found out about it after they were about 90% installed.  Had to remove it and I ended up with an STEC 55X.  The STEC works fine, but I was not happy with the shop that went down this road before looking into the paperwork.

 

[Shawn26]

  On 5/27/2020 at 5:28 PM, rcwagner said:

Just make sure your M20J is 100% M20J.  Mine was rebuilt with an M20L tail cone, and Garmin would not create an STC for my aircraft.  They found out about it after they were about 90% installed.  Had to remove it and I ended up with an STEC 55X.  The STEC works fine, but I was not happy with the shop that went down this road before looking into the paperwork.
 

Wow, I’m sure I got a J 1983.


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[aviatoreb]

  On 5/27/2020 at 5:28 PM, rcwagner said:

Just make sure your M20J is 100% M20J.  Mine was rebuilt with an M20L tail cone, and Garmin would not create an STC for my aircraft.  They found out about it after they were about 90% installed.  Had to remove it and I ended up with an STEC 55X.  The STEC works fine, but I was not happy with the shop that went down this road before looking into the paperwork.

 

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Wow - what a nightmare.  :-(

What is the difference between a M20L tailcone and a M20J tailcone and how did you end up with it?

[ArtVandelay]

  On 5/27/2020 at 5:28 PM, rcwagner said:

Just make sure your M20J is 100% M20J.  Mine was rebuilt with an M20L tail cone, and Garmin would not create an STC for my aircraft.  They found out about it after they were about 90% installed.  Had to remove it and I ended up with an STEC 55X.  The STEC works fine, but I was not happy with the shop that went down this road before looking into the paperwork.
 

I have hard time blaming the shop, I’ve never heard of such a thing.

[jonhop]

  On 5/25/2020 at 9:50 PM, Bob - S50 said:

But a G5 will NOT run a KFC150 or a KAP150.

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I thought a pair of G5's could drive a KFC or KAP 150 since Garmin's introduction of the GAD 29B.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/third-party-autopilot-support-for-g5-expanded/

It's an old article but there are several avionics shops that advertises a G5, GMU 11, and GAD 29B DG/HSI combo that supports many third party autopilots. BK's KAP/KFC 150 autopilots are on the list. What am I missing?

[Andy95W]

The G5/GAD-29 will interface with the KAP 150 for navigation only, not for attitude input.  To get that you’d need a 275 or an Aspen.

[Bob - S50]

To add to that, that is to say, you can use a G5 as an HSI for those autopilots but it will not work as an ADI.