Sheltair Raising Hangar Rents

[gsxrpilot]

I pay $145/month... on the land under this Port-a-port that I paid $80K to buy.

[markgrue]

Dang...  I live in a worse place then that....   I can see why some folks build shacks inside them.

 

Mark

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I pay $145/month... on the land under this Port-a-port that I paid $80K to buy.

Yeah, I'm jealous!  I pay $360/mo just to rent a county hangar...and I only have a foot and a half clearance off each wing tip!

[KLRDMD]

On 3/20/2020 at 10:24 AM, MB65E said:

Better than my notice. “As I mentioned, the airport recently won an FAA grant to rehab our taxiway which is adjacent to the hangar you occupy. That row of hangars will violate the taxiway’s building restriction area and, unfortunately, we are required to remove them in order to complete the project.”

Marana, AZ (KAVQ) did that last year. Wiped out a whole row of hangars - and it was the big ones, where they kept high $$$ airplanes. People were not pleased.

[KLRDMD]

3 hours ago, cliffy said:

Our T hangars are very old Port-a-Ports that sold new for @ $7500  now go for $20,000 or more. 20K if you're lucky

You can't touch a 40 y/o Port-A-Port for that kind of money around here. The. last one sold, last month, for $40k.

[cliffy]

I think even at today's prices you could buy all the steel an a P a P hangar  for $2,500

I'll bet I can build an exact copy in a week by my self.

[Frank B.]

8 hours ago, Shiny moose said:

My T hanger rent 170 including electricity. Nice LED lights and 2 outlets, I have no complaint except with a 2 year average wait, the AP management secretly rents vacant spaces to the FBOs then they jack up rent to unsuspecting owners. Subleasing not allowed but done 

Hey ... did you ever use ..... or sell that turbo normalized set up that you have?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I pay $145/month... on the land under this Port-a-port that I paid $80K to buy.

With all of the extra space you need another airplane to share the space.

Clarence

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, M20Doc said:

With all of the extra space you need another airplane to share the space.

Clarence

Yes! You are correct sir! It would probably need to be a high wing, maybe a tail wheel with big tires 

I'll have to get another picture next time I'm out there. We always seem to be able to fill the space without really trying very hard. There is now a shop, toolbox, etc on the left side, storage racks and a car parked on the right and a ski boat in the back behind the tail.

[philiplane]

Updating this topic-

At FXE and PMP, Sheltair is raising the rents by 50 percent. A standard, 1000 square foot, 40 foot wide, rusty, leaky, 45 year old tee hangar is going from $890 per month to $1350.

You can get better hangars for less money anywhere else. 

 

[Pinecone]

What does storage space cost in your area?

Locally a 10x25 storage unit is $228  month.  A hangar, for a new lease is $650.

So about 91 cents per sqft versus 84 cents per sqft

 

[Schllc]

I have a T-hangar at KAPF that fits an Aerostar. It runs me about 900 a month but we are on notice for regular raises every year until they get to what the city (who owns and manages the hangers), says it gets to fair market rates. It was 720 when I got it almost three years ago. 
like many have said, you pay what they ask, bc you don’t have an alternative.  I get that for private business, but for a public owned, managed and funded airport, that won’t allow real FBO competition on the field, it feels tyrannical. Not in the cost sense, in the lack of alternatives, and the arbitrary reasoning.  I mean they already may $3-4 per gallon on the fuel, even fuel farms have to pay a $2 flow charge so it’s hardly worth it.

they don’t have debt, they get millions every year in grants, have incredible employment packages and control everything with an iron fist. 
forgot, if you lease a hangar from someone they charge you $600 a year to “review the lease”, that they write and compel you to use!
 

oh, a friend works for a company that bought a hangar for a charter operation, I’d say it’s about 10-12ksqft. They had 9 years left on the land leas and renewed for another 30hours and that cost them 1.5 million up front, plus the monthly nut. 
it’s quite the racket. 
meanwhile, a friend in rural MS got a brand new box hangar big enough for a TBM with hydraulic door for $185 a month. 
federal funds sustain that airport completely. 

[Davidv]

12 hours ago, philiplane said:

Updating this topic-

At FXE and PMP, Sheltair is raising the rents by 50 percent. A standard, 1000 square foot, 40 foot wide, rusty, leaky, 45 year old tee hangar is going from $890 per month to $1350.

You can get better hangars for less money anywhere else. 

 

I looked back at this thread and realized I had complained about my $15 increase .  Like you, we got ours raised to 1350 but they were nice enough to lower it to ~$1200+ for signing a 2 year lease.  Since the 60 day out clause stays the same it's a no brainer to sign the 2 year lease (I should have asked for the price on a 10 or 20 year lease .  Unfortunately this is probably a function of someone in the sheltair corporate office thinking it's a nuisance to deal with 100 little tenants when they could just knock down the hangars and build large jet ones.  I don't think that will happen in our spot but that's what is happening at the old Lynx ones in the northwest corner.  I'm thinking that the airport has some incentive not to kick out all of the little guys because maybe total arrivals and departures affects their FAA funding? 

I'm also sure the new longer waiting list (with the demolished hangars) has something to do with our draconian increase.

Edited June 20 by Davidv

[philiplane]

Sheltair had their usual 3-5 percent land lease rent increase from the city. So they added a zero to that number, and passed that increase along to their tenants. 

It must be to pay for the new doors, roofs, upgraded electrical systems....oh wait...all of those have been neglected for the past 48 years. The buildings are literally falling apart.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, Schllc said:

you pay what they ask, bc you don’t have an alternative

There is the real bottom line.  I could move, but it's a major hassle to truck all my junk to another airport, where they will raise prices just as fast, while complaining about some of the things in my hangar.  Don't tell anybody, but I have a grinder in there.
Now that I got the whining out of the way, I have to admit that my hangar only got a 3% increase for 2024.

[hubcap]

3 hours ago, Schllc said:

I have a T-hangar at KAPF that fits an Aerostar. It runs me about 900 a month but we are on notice for regular raises every year until they get to what the city (who owns and manages the hangers), says it gets to fair market rates. It was 720 when I got it almost three years ago. 
like many have said, you pay what they ask, bc you don’t have an alternative.  I get that for private business, but for a public owned, managed and funded airport, that won’t allow real FBO competition on the field, it feels tyrannical. Not in the cost sense, in the lack of alternatives, and the arbitrary reasoning.  I mean they already may $3-4 per gallon on the fuel, even fuel farms have to pay a $2 flow charge so it’s hardly worth it.

they don’t have debt, they get millions every year in grants, have incredible employment packages and control everything with an iron fist. 
forgot, if you lease a hangar from someone they charge you $600 a year to “review the lease”, that they write and compel you to use!
 

oh, a friend works for a company that bought a hangar for a charter operation, I’d say it’s about 10-12ksqft. They had 9 years left on the land leas and renewed for another 30hours and that cost them 1.5 million up front, plus the monthly nut. 
it’s quite the racket. 
meanwhile, a friend in rural MS got a brand new box hangar big enough for a TBM with hydraulic door for $185 a month. 
federal funds sustain that airport completely. 

I am on the board at my local airport, which is a larger un-controlled airport just under the Kansas City Bravo. Our airport is also owned by the city, but it is almost completely self funded. It does not turn a profit. Our primary source of revenue is Jet A sales followed by 100 LL sales followed by hangar rent. We are in the process of a significant expansion for a new Terminal building and large commercial hangar for local jets to base out of. I currently pay $475 a month for a nice T-hangar. T-hangars are just not a significant source of revenue for airports and they will never cash flow if you build new ones at any rate that owners are willing to pay. Jet traffic is where the money is for airports. GA is more of a nuisance from a financial standpoint. It is really just a matter of economics. Our airport is well managed but we sure don't have any stacks of cash laying around. We are the busiest non-towered airport in Missouri and we can't get a tower because funding isn't available. Its always about the Benjamins

[Parker_Woodruff]

17 minutes ago, hubcap said:

 T-hangars are just not a significant source of revenue for airports and they will never cash flow if you build new ones at any rate that owners are willing to pay. 

Especially in Texas.  If you build them here, you have to pay property taxes on the structure even if you don't own the land.  The best option is to build the hangar then donate the structure to the municipality and just have a good land lease under the structure you built.

The economics otherwise don't work with our awful property tax rates.

[Texas Mooney]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Especially in Texas.  If you build them here, you have to pay property taxes on the structure even if you don't own the land.  The best option is to build the hangar then donate the structure to the municipality and just have a good land lease under the structure you built.

The economics otherwise don't work with our awful property tax rates.

Yup - some of the highest property tax rates in the nation in "(fake) low tax" Texas,  That is why the airports in Texas, both public and private, get sold  and turned into housing and offices- Robert Mueller in Austin, Weiser, Andrau, and old Westheimer in Houston.  The city and county make way, way, way more from property taxes than from hangar rent or fuel sales.  The City of Sugar Land talks about developing some of KSGR into " retail, office or hospitality " in their long term plan.  https://communityimpact.com/houston/sugar-land-missouri-city/business/2022/04/22/sugar-land-regional-airport-eyes-future-development/

And many may not be aware that the City of Sugar Land has signed a lease to allow a power plant on 9 acres next to KSGR.  It used to be a State Prison Farm that paid no taxes....now it will pay $$$$ in taxes.  Joy for pilots - lots of power lines and exhaust stacks even if it is "rapid start diesel engine generators".   It looks like this:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/fort-bend/article/sugar-land-power-plant-extreme-weather-19474629.php

https://communityimpact.com/houston/sugar-land-missouri-city/business/2024/05/31/146m-power-plant-in-sugar-land-aims-to-minimize-impact-of-weather-disasters/

Edited June 20 by Texas Mooney

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, hubcap said:

T-hangars are just not a significant source of revenue for airports and they will never cash flow if you build new ones at any rate that owners are willing to pay. Jet traffic is where the money is for airports. GA is more of a nuisance from a financial standpoint. It is really just a matter of economics. Our airport is well managed but we sure don't have any stacks of cash laying around. We are the busiest non-towered airport in Missouri and we can't get a tower because funding isn't available. Its always about the Benjamins

My local airport seems to be doing quite well.  They just (over the winter) built a new row of T-hangars.  16 units plus the two end corners.   $650 for a T-hangar, $450 for the end corner units.  So $11,300 per month.  And they are full now.

You can also get a 100x100 hangar.  That goes for $10,000 per month.

[hubcap]

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

My local airport seems to be doing quite well.  They just (over the winter) built a new row of T-hangars.  16 units plus the two end corners.   $650 for a T-hangar, $450 for the end corner units.  So $11,300 per month.  And they are full now.

You can also get a 100x100 hangar.  That goes for $10,000 per month.

For our airport to be financially responsible we would have to charge around $1200/ month for a T-hangar if we built new….just to break even.

[EricJ]

We have periodic pancake breakfast meetings with our airport manager at DVT.   A number of large new jet hangars have been built and more are in progress.   He has indicated that space has been allocated for some more commercial hangars and the expectation is that new space will be available for small GA in these commercial hangars likely in the >$1000/mo level.   He also indicated that there are zero plans for the city to ever build any more city-owned hangars, despite the waiting lists for large and small hangars and even shades being years long.

The economics are consistent.   It does make one wonder what the long-term picture will be for small GA.   Maybe we just get pushed outside of the metropolitan areas and become a rural phenomena.  

 

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

He also indicated that there are zero plans for the city to ever build any more city-owned hangars, despite the waiting lists for large and small hangars and even shades being years long.

The economics are consistent.   It does make one wonder what the long-term picture will be for small GA.   Maybe we just get pushed outside of the metropolitan areas and become a rural phenomena.  

Duh....Hasn't that always been the story of aviation in the growth of the SouthWest? Growing up in Albuquerque I thought airports just temporarily parked on undervalued land and they would leave as soon as people showed up.  Bill Cutter, who started Cutter Aviation in 1922, had 2 airports before moving to the Sunport.    I can think of 2 other airports plus Coronado Airport that existed.  By the early 60's all had been sold, vacated and turned into housing development subdivisions.  By the 90's even Coronado Airport was purchased by the Sandia Pueblo and turned into a Casino.

In your North East Phoenix neck of the woods it looks like 5-6 airports have already succombed to urban sprawl and housing development.  Why would it be any different now?

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/az/Airfields_AZ_Phoenix_NE.htm#casablanca

[EricJ]

9 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Duh....Hasn't that always been the story of aviation in the growth of the SouthWest? Growing up in Albuquerque I thought airports just temporarily parked on undervalued land and they would leave as soon as people showed up.  Bill Cutter, who started Cutter Aviation in 1922, had 2 airports before moving to the Sunport.    I can think of 2 other airports plus Coronado Airport that existed.  By the early 60's all had been sold, vacated and turned into housing development subdivisions.  By the 90's even Coronado Airport was purchased by the Sandia Pueblo and turned into a Casino.

In your North East Phoenix neck of the woods it looks like 5-6 airports have already succombed to urban sprawl and housing development.  Why would it be any different now?

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/az/Airfields_AZ_Phoenix_NE.htm#casablanca

I think what's happening now is different.   The airports aren't going away, in fact they're getting significant capital investment, but it's all to support jets and turbines.   I think DVT has a long future ahead of it, likewise with Scottsdale (SDL).   In both cases, though, light GA is having a diminishing presence and that appears to be a continuing trend.   The airports will still be here, but small GA airplanes won't be.  They'll either disappear or have to go elsewhere.

[PeteMc]

8 hours ago, Pinecone said:

$650 for a T-hangar, $450 for the end corner units. 

I would think the ends would be bigger square or rectangular hangars?  If they are smaller than a T-hangar ($450 vs $650 for a T) what are you supposed to do with them?  If it is just for storage, does it have to be aviation related?

[Pinecone]

15 hours ago, hubcap said:

For our airport to be financially responsible we would have to charge around $1200/ month for a T-hangar if we built new….just to break even.

I think some Fed funds are paying part of the cost of the new hangar.  But they are already planning the next row.  Once they are full and have 10 people waiting, they will build.

They have room for 2 more row.s