New Garmin GI275 think round G5's

[McMooney]

17 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

I guess you are right. Only aircraft restricted to VFR can remove the airspeed and altimeter.

I'm really  thinking of installing 1 or 2 of the 275's.

adi and hsi,  they just seem to make sense.

now for the adi, i can't see a reason why i would ever remove my pitot/static instruments anyway. just doesn't make sense.

synvis is a huge help in the planes i've flown, not because i used it to evade terrain but really just because of the extra cues while ifr.  just seems more "comfortable?"  than the standard blue/brown look.

If i'm not mistaken, the gi-275 may have more screen area then a g5, they aren't overly large.

 

 

[Bob - S50]

1 hour ago, McMooney said:

I'm really  thinking of installing 1 or 2 of the 275's.

adi and hsi,  they just seem to make sense.

now for the adi, i can't see a reason why i would ever remove my pitot/static instruments anyway. just doesn't make sense.

 

 

Agree. I would keep them even if didn't have to.

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

I'm really  thinking of installing 1 or 2 of the 275's.

adi and hsi,  they just seem to make sense.

now for the adi, i can't see a reason why i would ever remove my pitot/static instruments anyway. just doesn't make sense.

synvis is a huge help in the planes i've flown, not because i used it to evade terrain but really just because of the extra cues while ifr.  just seems more "comfortable?"  than the standard blue/brown look.

If i'm not mistaken, the gi-275 may have more screen area then a g5, they aren't overly large.

 

 

Will you Interface to an autopilot?  Which one?

if you do go this route I am sure many of us like me would be interested in the total cost including all actual equipment it requires plus actual complexity/hours to install.

[Steve W]

4 hours ago, McMooney said:

If i'm not mistaken, the gi-275 may have more screen area then a g5, they aren't overly large.

Actual display square inches is something like 5% less for the GI-275... but I've misplaced the math.

 

[Speed Brakes]

I have a kfc150 setup with ki256 and ki525a. For feasibility of install, I am wondering if I can replace the ki256 with the gi275 for the attitude input to the autopilot, then the aspen e5 to replace the ki525a. Perhaps this would preclude the need for an ea100? More bang for your buck than 2gi275’s or aspen and a g5... but not sure if it’s doable. 

[jlunseth]

Some observations. I am doing some panel upgrades in April, probably GTN750Xi and a 275 got a backup AI.  Thinking about a PFD for the future.  

The list of compatible devices for the 275 and particularly the G3X Touch is shorter than for the last generation (G500, G5).  Autopilot compatibility with non-Garmin AP's is good, but other devices not so much.  The G3 in particular looks compatible almost exclusively with Garmin devices, except for the AP which is more open architecture.  Garmin perhaps moving everyone to "all Garmin."

The 275 is ok as an electric backup AI to the 256, but I don't find a battery backup for the 275.  I thought there was a 1 hour battery backup, but maybe that is the G3.  In aircraft like mine, which is 14V, one battery, and one alternator, the 275 as the primary AI replacement for the vacuum 256 just does not work for me.  Even with a second 275 backing up the first 275 it wouldn't work, because if you lose electrical then you lose both.  As an electric backup to a vacuum primary it works better. If you have redundant batteries and alternators it might be an ok primary choice.

Some of these new Garmin devices, such as the GTN750, have way way too many functions and options.  Best to turn a lot of it off I think.  Probably a necessary evil if you are putting them into a market where they will serve SE pistons up through multi-engine corporate and commercial jets.  Its sort of like the nanny technology for cars though.  You have to pay for the privilege of turning the stuff off so it does not get in the way.  The 430/530 series is simpler and generally provides the functions you need to navigate from point A to point B safely without jumping in and telling you something every 5 seconds.

The new devices sure look pretty and operate much faster.

[Ragsf15e]

5 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Some observations. I am doing some panel upgrades in April, probably GTN750Xi and a 275 got a backup AI.  Thinking about a PFD for the future.  

The list of compatible devices for the 275 and particularly the G3X Touch is shorter than for the last generation (G500, G5).  Autopilot compatibility with non-Garmin AP's is good, but other devices not so much.  The G3 in particular looks compatible almost exclusively with Garmin devices, except for the AP which is more open architecture.  Garmin perhaps moving everyone to "all Garmin."

The 275 is ok as an electric backup AI to the 256, but I don't find a battery backup for the 275.  I thought there was a 1 hour battery backup, but maybe that is the G3.  In aircraft like mine, which is 14V, one battery, and one alternator, the 275 as the primary AI replacement for the vacuum 256 just does not work for me.  Even with a second 275 backing up the first 275 it wouldn't work, because if you lose electrical then you lose both.  As an electric backup to a vacuum primary it works better. If you have redundant batteries and alternators it might be an ok primary choice.

Some of these new Garmin devices, such as the GTN750, have way way too many functions and options.  Best to turn a lot of it off I think.  Probably a necessary evil if you are putting them into a market where they will serve SE pistons up through multi-engine corporate and commercial jets.  Its sort of like the nanny technology for cars though.  You have to pay for the privilege of turning the stuff off so it does not get in the way.  The 430/530 series is simpler and generally provides the functions you need to navigate from point A to point B safely without jumping in and telling you something every 5 seconds.

The new devices sure look pretty and operate much faster.

The -275s have an optional battery backup certified for 1 hour.  As an option, it does increase their price a little.  Obviously if you’re using it as your primary adi with a single alternator and battery, you’ll need the battery backup otion.

The -275s have lots of options that increase functionality and price.  Stuff like syn vis, battery, and autopilot connections are optional.

They are a great option in my opinion.  I just got 2xg5s which is nice, but I’m a little jealous of the -275 fitting into the panel without the surgery my g5s required.

[jlunseth]

The backup option was on Garmin’s website, I thought, a couple of weeks ago.  It is not there today, don’t know why.

[jamesm]

So what about the turn coordinator?  I I know the ball is there but the 2 min  turn on the G5 but  the rate indicator portion seems extremely sensitive on the G5's when comparing it to the Turn Coordinator.   In early G5 install manual you had to keep  Turn coordinator if the G5 was replacing the ADI  or you could replace the Turn and Bank with a G5 but could replace booth at least that was my understanding. When will we be able to get rid of the mechanical  heavy, annoying, noisy turn coordinator?  It takes too much space for what it can do.  I guess I am spoiled with modern day electronics.

Just curious,

James '67C

[Steve W]

10 hours ago, jamesm said:

 When will we be able to get rid of the mechanical  heavy, annoying, noisy turn coordinator?  It takes too much space for what it can do.  I guess I am spoiled with modern day electronics.

You can replace it now, just not with things whose STC requires not using them for their own backup. For instance you could install an RC Allen 2610 and a pair of G5s, or probably the AV-30 when it comes out, or any number of other attitude indicators(per AC 91-75). 

[Ragsf15e]

21 minutes ago, Steve W said:

You can replace it now, just not with things whose STC requires not using them for their own backup. For instance you could install an RC Allen 2610 and a pair of G5s, or probably the AV-30 when it comes out, or any number of other attitude indicators(per AC 91-75). 

Or maybe a -275 with a pair of g5s.

[jlunseth]

@jamesm

The 275 has both turn coordinator indicators, and a slip/skid indicator (the ball).  The turn coordinator indicators are little airplanes that show up on either side of center, above the bank lines at the top.  The slip/skid indicator is a line under the triangle bank pointer at the top, the line looks like an underscore but slides left or right of the triangle pointer if you are uncoordinated.  I haven't checked to determine if the 275 is a legal replacement for the TC though.  The first place to look would be Garmin's STC, which is online at garmin.com, it is under the particular instrument (the 275).

Edited March 2, 2020 by jlunseth

[Steve W]

2 hours ago, jlunseth said:

@jamesm

The 275 has both turn coordinator indicators, and a slip/skid indicator (the ball).  The turn coordinator indicators are little airplanes that show up on either side of center, above the bank lines at the top.  The slip/skid indicator is a line under the triangle bank pointer at the top, the line looks like an underscore but slides left or right of the triangle pointer if you are uncoordinated.  I haven't checked to determine if the 275 is a legal replacement for the TC though.  The first place to look would be Garmin's STC, which is online at garmin.com, it is under the particular instrument (the 275).

Unfortunately, unlike the G5, the 275 information that you need to determine if you can use it as a Turn Cooridinator (install guide, STC information) isn't available to mere mortals.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Steve W

[jlunseth]

Go to Garmin.com. Navigate to the 275 (Aviation->General Aviation->Flight Instruments->GI275).  Near the bottom of the page for the 275, on the right,  click on Manuals.  You will see a menu list.  Pick the long numbered one, don’t pick “Appliance Data.” There are two STC’s there, plus a Maintenance Manual.  I have not gone through them, just researching this myself for an April panel project, so haven’t yet worked through the answer for myself, although the avionics shop says it is ok. I think you would need to check the Type Certificate for your model and see if the TC is specified.  If it is, then there would have to be a Garmin document STC’ng the 275 as primary for the Turn Coordinator/Slip-Skid Indicator.  If not, then there would probably need to be a TSO or something, so it would satisfy GRABCARD requirements for IFR flight.  A 337 by the avionics shop may work.  My thoughts. 

The TC indicators on the 275 slide out and back depending on airspeed, to correctly designate a two minute turn.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

Go to Garmin.com. Navigate to the 275 (Aviation->General Aviation->Flight Instruments->GI275).  Near the bottom of the page for the 275, on the right,  click on Manuals.  You will see a menu list.  Pick the long numbered one, don’t pick “Appliance Data.” There are two STC’s there, plus a Maintenance Manual.  I have not gone through them, just researching this myself for an April panel project, so haven’t yet worked through the answer for myself, although the avionics shop says it is ok. I think you would need to check the Type Certificate for your model and see if the TC is specified.  If it is, then there would have to be a Garmin document STC’ng the 275 as primary for the Turn Coordinator/Slip-Skid Indicator.  If not, then there would probably need to be a TSO or something, so it would satisfy GRABCARD requirements for IFR flight.  A 337 by the avionics shop may work.  My thoughts. 

The TC indicators on the 275 slide out and back depending on airspeed, to correctly designate a two minute turn.

I do not have the number, but there’s an AC from ~10 years ago or more that allows replacement of a turn coordinator with an ADI.  The G5 STC explicitly says it cannot be used for both at the same time.  
 

I think you’ll just have to make sure the Garmin stc for the -275 doesn’t limit using it or a combination of it and a G5 as both TC and ADI.

[jlunseth]

19 hours ago, Steve W said:

You can replace it now, just not with things whose STC requires not using them for their own backup. For instance you could install an RC Allen 2610 and a pair of G5s, or probably the AV-30 when it comes out, or any number of other attitude indicators(per AC 91-75). 

I looked up the AC (90-75). It permits the replacement of the Turn Coordinator with an AI, but I noticed two things.  First, it allowed the replacement where the power source for the replacement is different from the power source for the primary AI. In other words, the primary vacuum AI would have to stay.  Second, it said that there must be a permanently mounted slip/skid indicator (the ball).  So if you are going to take out the TC that most of us have, that has a ball, then it appears that the 275 has to be approved to act as primary for slip/skid. In other words an AI can go in as a backup (non-primary certified) turn coordinator, but not as a slip/skid (unless certified as primary for that function).  So that is the question, is the 275 certified as primary, and it appears that there is a primary version of it as an ADI (back-up battery is required), but maybe someone can advise whether it is primary for slip/skid. AC90-75 does not help with that.

[carusoam]

JL,

See if this is what you are referring to....

Aspen and Garmin have been hiding the ball in plain sight... (I think...)

I marked the displayed ‘ball’ with a red arrow...

PP thoughts only, not an instrument guy...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[Steve W]

37 minutes ago, carusoam said:

JL,

See if this is what you are referring to....

Aspen and Garmin have been hiding the ball in plain sight... (I think...)

I marked the displayed ‘ball’ with a red arrow...

That's not a ball, that's a trapezoid. Admittedly 'step on the trapezoid' doesn't have the same ring to it.

[donkaye, MCFI]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

JL,

See if this is what you are referring to....

Aspen and Garmin have been hiding the ball in plain sight... (I think...)

I marked the displayed ‘ball’ with a red arrow...

PP thoughts only, not an instrument guy...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

Maybe it was stated before, but the airplanes on top of the roll indicator are the standard rate turn indicators.  Increase speed and you will see the airplanes move out to a larger bank angle as expected.

[carusoam]

Thanks Don! (And Steve )

I think I get continuing education credits just by reading this thread.

Best regards,

-a-

[jlunseth]

@carusoam

Yes, that is the “ball.” (slip/skid indicator) and Don is right, the little airplane signals are the turn indicator, they expand out or shrink in depending on aircraft speed to demarcate the bank for a two minute turn.