pwnel

Bendix Ignition Switch AD compliance

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AD 76-07-12 describes compliance with testing the Bendix Ignition Switch every 100hrs or at every annual.  Every year there's an entry in my logbooks at annual that this AD has been complied with.  Most annuals have been performed by well-known MSCs for the last 35 years.

HOWEVER, my 231 was made in 1985, one of the last few ever built.  This is 9 years after the AD.  The 231 was type certified 2 years AFTER that AD was issued.  The FAA would surely never have allowed an ignition switch with an AD against it to be installed in a new plane?

How is it possible that this pops up every year?  I'm combing through everything as part of a process to move all my logs to the AdLog system and according to AdLog this AD isn't valid for the 231.  @M20Doc @kortopates  you have insight ?  Hope everyone is enjoying the Caravan and OSH!

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I'd think that the line for: "except switches identified by four digit date code (new) adjacent to the model number" should apply if someone were to actually look at your switch.

Amusingly, I just found that it doesn't appear in my early logs(1994) but apparently someone started putting it in starting about 2012 and it's in all the annuals after that.

Edited by Steve W

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2 hours ago, Steve W said:

I'd think that the line for: "except switches identified by four digit date code (new) adjacent to the model number" should apply if someone were to actually look at your switch.

Amusingly, I just found that it doesn't appear in my early logs(1994) but apparently someone started putting it in starting about 2012 and it's in all the annuals after that.

Right, I read all my logs since 1985.  Like yours, the "virus" was introduced in 2003 by a non-MSC annual and thereafter intermittently shows up on my annual inspections.  Surprised that some well known MSCs doesn't know better and just keep on putting it in the logs like lemmings. 

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The switch can show up anywhere, since there were thousands of them on the shelves when the AD was issued. They were installed new many years after the AD, since the part was not considered bad unless it flunked the test. The majority of these switches will pass the test until the plane is in the boneyard. 

So when a mechanic is uncertain about the status of the switch, it's either do the five second long test,  or spend an hour digging into the panel to find the date code on the switch. More often than not the date code is hard to find or unreadable.

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My IA nagged me a bit this year since he figured out that I'm flying a lot more than 100 hours/year, so the annual test doesn't cut it.   It's not sufficient that you do it every 100 hours, it has to be recorded and I didn't put it in the logbook.   Pilot/owner can record that one.

 

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3 hours ago, EricJ said:

My IA nagged me a bit this year since he figured out that I'm flying a lot more than 100 hours/year, so the annual test doesn't cut it.   It's not sufficient that you do it every 100 hours, it has to be recorded and I didn't put it in the logbook.   Pilot/owner can record that one.

 

I test mine after nearly every flight.  Quick turn to off, engine quitting? Yes.  I log it when we do the gear and control lube AD

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Virtually every plane has this one in their AD list. It really isn't worth any trouble to remove it by date code on the switch, but sure, why not if you can. In truth though every pilot should be testing this on EVERY shutdown. I am sure every pilot that earned their PPL within the last 10-15 yrs was taught to do this test with every shutdown; whether Bendix, or ACS etc. We've had way too many death and serious injuries from hot props not to do so; of course not all from flunking this test but I had to replace my switch a few years ago when the contactors became intermittent. Now that I am more experienced and seen many accidents from hot props (including a Mooney mechanic friend), In my opinion the AD doesn't go far enough. It should also include a Key check. I learned this one from a fatal accident on my field. How many of you have gotten extra ignition keys from the aviation aisle at Home Depot or Lowes? No surprise, but the only approved Bendix key blanks for making spares come from Bendix - not home depot. Make sure that with your un-approved spare key that its not possible to remove the key until the off position. I didn't learn this till a fatal accident involving a trainer where the key was removed and put on the dash and then pilot & instructor got out to push the plane back. Problem was the key got pulled out without it being in the Off position! You know what happened next sadly. I never heard but wondered what kind lawsuit entailed and the potential judgement against the owner (school) - I assumed they were sued by using "unapproved parts". I quickly checked all my keys learning this and continue to do the shutdown test on every plane i work with - AD ot not, I consider it significant safety issue.

Edited by kortopates
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37 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I test mine after nearly every flight.  Quick turn to off, engine quitting? Yes.  I log it when we do the gear and control lube AD

Same here, with 2 planes its cramped in the hangar so the props get rotated vertical at rest then horizontal for the tow bar. 

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1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Virtually every plane has this one in their AD list. It really isn't worth any trouble to remove it by date code on the switch, but sure, why not if you can. In truth though every pilot should be testing this on EVERY shutdown. I am sure every pilot that earned their PPL within the last 10-15 yrs was taught to do this test with every shutdown; whether Bendix, or ACS etc. We've had way too many death and serious injuries from hot props not to do so; of course not all from flunking this test but I had to replace my switch a few years ago when the contactors became intermittent. Now that I am more experienced and seen many accidents from hot props (including a Mooney mechanic friend), In my opinion the AD doesn't go far enough. It should also include a Key check. I learned this one from a fatal accident on my field. How many of you have gotten extra ignition keys from the aviation aisle at Home Depot or Lowes? No surprise, but the only approved Bendix key blanks for making spares come from Bendix - not home depot. Make sure that with your un-approved spare key that its not possible to remove the key until the off position. I didn't learn this till a fatal accident involving a trainer where the key was removed and put on the dash and then pilot & instructor got out to push the plane back. Problem was the key got pulled out without it being in the Off position! You know what happened next sadly. I never heard but wondered what kind lawsuit entailed and the potential judgement against the owner (school) - I assumed they were sued by using "unapproved parts". I quickly checked all my keys learning this and continue to do the shutdown test on every plane i work with - AD ot not, I consider it significant safety issue.

Paul,

Thank you for sharing the deep detail that goes with the AD...

It is much clearer to me now...

What to be looking for...

I use the ‘keys on the dash’ as a sign that the ignition is off... (cars and plane)

Without considering that the keys could escape while the switch is in the other positions...

Best regards,

-a-

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On 7/20/2019 at 9:23 PM, kortopates said:

Virtually every plane has this one in their AD list. It really isn't worth any trouble to remove it by date code on the switch, but sure, why not if you can. In truth though every pilot should be testing this on EVERY shutdown. I am sure every pilot that earned their PPL within the last 10-15 yrs was taught to do this test with every shutdown; whether Bendix, or ACS etc. We've had way too many death and serious injuries from hot props not to do so; of course not all from flunking this test but I had to replace my switch a few years ago when the contactors became intermittent. Now that I am more experienced and seen many accidents from hot props (including a Mooney mechanic friend), In my opinion the AD doesn't go far enough. It should also include a Key check. I learned this one from a fatal accident on my field. How many of you have gotten extra ignition keys from the aviation aisle at Home Depot or Lowes? No surprise, but the only approved Bendix key blanks for making spares come from Bendix - not home depot. Make sure that with your un-approved spare key that its not possible to remove the key until the off position. I didn't learn this till a fatal accident involving a trainer where the key was removed and put on the dash and then pilot & instructor got out to push the plane back. Problem was the key got pulled out without it being in the Off position! You know what happened next sadly. I never heard but wondered what kind lawsuit entailed and the potential judgement against the owner (school) - I assumed they were sued by using "unapproved parts". I quickly checked all my keys learning this and continue to do the shutdown test on every plane i work with - AD ot not, I consider it significant safety issue.

Thank you Paul.  I was not aware of the AD.  There has been no mention of compliance with this AD in my logs and my airplane was serviced for several years at an MSC.  This leads me to an important question.  How does an aircraft owner find a truly complete AD list?

 

When I conducted an AD search on the FAA website for both “M20M” and “M20”, the Bendix switch AD did not come up....

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/search/?q=mooney m20&makeModel=&type=Current&filter=&sort=effectiveDate&direction=desc&startRow=51

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/search/?q=mooney+m20m

 

Does this mean that a complete search would have to include all accessories for the aircraft separately?  Is there a service the does not cost a fortune that one can rely on?  

Thanks in advance.

Alex

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50 minutes ago, alextstone said:

Thank you Paul.  I was not aware of the AD.  There has been no mention of compliance with this AD in my logs and my airplane was serviced for several years at an MSC.  This leads me to an important question.  How does an aircraft owner find a truly complete AD list?

 

When I conducted an AD search on the FAA website for both “M20M” and “M20”, the Bendix switch AD did not come up....

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/search/?q=mooney m20&makeModel=&type=Current&filter=&sort=effectiveDate&direction=desc&startRow=51

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/search/?q=mooney+m20m

 

Does this mean that a complete search would have to include all accessories for the aircraft separately?  Is there a service the does not cost a fortune that one can rely on?  

Thanks in advance.

Alex

If you have an M, it's very likely it doesn't apply

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3 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

If you have an M, it's very likely it doesn't apply

Hmm.  The AD says: “Airworthiness Directives; BENDIX IGNITION SWITCHES: Applies To All Aircraft Employing Magnetos and Using Bendix Ignition Switches”.

My parts catalog says:  Bendix Scintilla part number 10-357210.  

So, it appears to be under the AD...

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1 hour ago, alextstone said:

Thank you Paul.  I was not aware of the AD.  There has been no mention of compliance with this AD in my logs and my airplane was serviced for several years at an MSC.  This leads me to an important question.  How does an aircraft owner find a truly complete AD list?

There should be a list in your aircraft records from previous annuals.   If you're worried something was missed, anybody can do complete AD research on the FAA website, start here:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/Frameset?OpenPage

You can search by make/model, search engines, propellers, appliances, etc.    Inspect every AD that comes up for applicability to your specific aircraft model and serial number, engine and serial number, propeller and serial number, prop governor, etc.

Yeah, it's a lot of work.   There are also subscription services, like airresearch.com, that make the searches a little easier and will hotlink references in between them, but the FAA site will get you all the same info.   The FAA site is better for stuff like searching for a specific AD, but it's also free.

If you're worried about a lurking AD that has missed during previous annuals, I don't know of any way to find them other than somebody just doing an exhaustive search on one of the sites.  This is supposed to happen during every annual inspection.

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1 hour ago, alextstone said:

Does this mean that a complete search would have to include all accessories for the aircraft separately?  Is there a service the does not cost a fortune that one can rely on?  

Thanks in advance.

Alex

I use ADLog.com, not expensive and worth it. The logbook system, listing of Ad's, annual update to include new ones, it makes it easy. 

https://www.adlog.com/

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1 hour ago, alextstone said:

Hmm.  The AD says: “Airworthiness Directives; BENDIX IGNITION SWITCHES: Applies To All Aircraft Employing Magnetos and Using Bendix Ignition Switches”.

My parts catalog says:  Bendix Scintilla part number 10-357210.  

So, it appears to be under the AD...

This 1976 AD does not show up in an AdLog search for my 1985 M20K either. It was suddenly added at an annual in 2003 - nothing in the 18 years before that.  I can't see how Mooney could have legally installed the range of defective switches in any plane after 1976.

Now as @kortopates explains, it's of course good practice to check this, but I have a problem with the Feds mandating pilot operating practice through ADs. In a similar vein we can then end up having ADs for "brake checks" or "free and correct controls" after startup. I'm also not happy with that IA who seemed to have randomly introduced it into my logs. Probably does it to all Mooneys without looking simply for fear of getting sued. 

Either way, moving my logs to AdLog over the weekend have taught me a huge amount.  And I got that tip from reading Mike Busch's latest book on Plane Ownership which I also highly recommend. 

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1 hour ago, alextstone said:

Hmm.  The AD says: “Airworthiness Directives; BENDIX IGNITION SWITCHES: Applies To All Aircraft Employing Magnetos and Using Bendix Ignition Switches”.

My parts catalog says:  Bendix Scintilla part number 10-357210.  

So, it appears to be under the AD...

The AD excludes switches with a date code or a white dot.  I can't imagine mooney installed a switch with an active AD.

 Bendix ignition switches listed in the table below except switches identified by four digit date code (new) adjacent to the model number or a white dot (modified) on the support plate adjacent to the Bendix logo. 

 

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5 hours ago, alextstone said:

Does this mean that a complete search would have to include all accessories for the aircraft separately?  Is there a service the does not cost a fortune that one can rely on?  

Exactly! Its easy to look up AD's for your Engine and airframe, but that leaves you grossly incomplete because you have to look up separately for each accessory. For example, vacuum pumps and even turbos are typically not with the engine. There was a recent AD on altimeters used in Mooney's. There have been seatbelt ADs and the list goes on and on.... Its very hard for the pilot owner to do this, I doubt any would get anywhere near a complete list just using the FAA site. This is why IA's subscribe to services to do this and why owners should use ADLog.com. My Adlog.com list for my '86 Mooney includes the Bendix AD.

 

2 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

The AD excludes switches with a date code or a white dot.  I can't imagine mooney installed a switch with an active AD.

 Bendix ignition switches listed in the table below except switches identified by four digit date code (new) adjacent to the model number or a white dot (modified) on the support plate adjacent to the Bendix logo. 

 

You may be missing how the AD system works. If you have the Bendix switch, the AD applies to your aircraft. If your switch has the excluded date code or white dot, then you'll be able to list the AD in the non-recurring list, resolved as NA due to date code and you won't have to log the recurring 100 hr checks. But without the AD entry in your AD list, saying what was found,  nobody really knows if its applicable till they pull your switch to look at it.   Anything that is possibly applicable and can't be easily determined visually without any disassembly needs to be documented as to why its not applicable. A test you should be considering is how otherwise do you prove the AD doesn't apply, if its not real obvious visually then list it.

Edited by kortopates
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13 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Exactly! Its easy to look up AD's for your Engine and airframe, but that leaves you grossly incomplete because you have to look up separately for each accessory. For example, vacuum pumps and even turbos are typically not with the engine. There was a recent AD on altimeters used in Mooney's. There have been seatbelt ADs and the list goes on and on.... Its very hard for the pilot owner to do this, I doubt any would get anywhere near a complete list just using the FAA site. This is why IA's subscribe to services to do this and why owners should use ADLog.com. My Adlog.com list for my '86 Mooney includes the Bendix AD.

 

You may be missing how the AD system works. If you have the Bendix switch, the AD applies to your aircraft. If your switch has the excluded date code or white dot, then you'll be able to list the AD in the non-recurring list, resolved as NA due to date code and you won't have to log the recurring 100 hr checks. But without the AD entry in your AD list, saying what was found,  nobody really knows if its applicable till they pull your switch to look at it.   Anything that is possibly applicable and can't be easily determined visually without any disassembly needs to be documented as to why its not applicable. A test you should be considering is how otherwise do you prove the AD doesn't apply, if its not real obvious visually then list it.

Thank you, very helpful.  In my case much of this is also an educational exercise in properly fulfilling my role as owner responsible for maintenance. It does sound like the Bendix AD should be in my AdLog list then.  (It's not). 

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5 minutes ago, pwnel said:

Thank you, very helpful.  In my case much of this is also an educational exercise in properly fulfilling my role as owner responsible for maintenance. It does sound like the Bendix AD should be in my AdLog list then.  (It's not). 

I'd email Fred at ADLog and ask him about it.

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6 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I'd email Fred at ADLog and ask him about it.

He says it's not applicable with the M20K only type certified 2 years after the AD ('78) and with my aircraft built in ('85) - 9 years after the AD.

(And I'm really just interested here in how things work - taking the time for the first time in 34 years of maintenance on this plane to be absolutely as perfect as I can be in getting the records in order :)).

Edited by pwnel

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8 minutes ago, pwnel said:

He says it's not applicable with the M20K only type certified 2 years after the AD ('78) and with my aircraft built in ('85) - 9 years after the AD.

That's interesting since he included it my '86 M20K. Maybe he changed his policy on that one since I started my subscription many years ago. Regardless though I trust him on this stuff. He probably know ADs as good or better than anyone. Plus this is one that get's subjective as to how long you keep applying it to airframes.

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I've been dutifully checking and documenting compliance with this AD every 100hrs.  A&P does the same at annual.  

Because of this thread, I now realize it does not apply to my ignition switch, which was replaced about 20yrs ago.

It seems like a good idea anyway to catch any P lead grounding issues...

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