Another IO360 with hosed Lifters/CAM

[Prior owner]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

They have one of those at aircraft spruce.  It has a fan that blows dry air into the breather tube, and, in theory, comes out through the pistons rings, into the cylinders and out the intake/exhaust pipes, so you don't need to do anything to the exhaust stack.

Realistically, I'm not sure how much moisture the engine will suck in as it cools down, I suspect typical ambient air has much less moisture in it than the hot, humid air in the motor.   In addition, the normal expansion and contraction of air would only bring ambient air into the exhaust pipe but not the cylinders.  As such, I suspect you could run this for a few hours, and then turn it off.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/engsaver.php?clickkey=5570

Since water is a byproduct of combustion, I guess the only way to get it all out after shutdown would be to have a forced dry-air system. I wonder how much moisture is in suspension in the engine oil as well- and if it’s clinging to the cam lobes and lifters after shutdown then there is probably nothing practical that can be done to protect a cam.

Edited June 13, 2019 by PilotCoyote

[Stephen]

http://www.flyingsafer.com/p-n-2065.html 

AC condenser engine dryer. 

[Prior owner]

20 minutes ago, Stephen said:

http://www.flyingsafer.com/p-n-2065.html 

AC condenser engine dryer. 

Wow. Never heard of it. Thanks for posting the link

[slowflyin]

15 minutes ago, Stephen said:

http://www.flyingsafer.com/p-n-2065.html 

AC condenser engine dryer. 

I purchased one of these several years ago.   Works as advertised.   When I first got it I tested it buy measuring humidity levels in the crankcase after shutdown.   Often it would return 90% relative humidity.   Upon turning the unit on levels would drop very quickly.   The next morning they would be well below the ambient.   I'll see if I can find my notes but if memory serves me it was around 15% RH during the summer with ambient in VA being around 80%.   I have had to have it repaired a couple of times over the last four or five years.  The manufacturer has always been able to accommodate.  

[jetdriven]

The black max will keep it dry. No water, no corrosion. I have a Tanis engine dehydrator which does the same thing but it uses desiccant beads. You have to recharge the beads periodically. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by jetdriven

[ArtVandelay]

Overhauled in 1994.  Wasn't that the timeframe for the poor metallurgy cams and lifters?

I got 2200+ hours out of my 96 factory new engine, it spent 6 years being lightly used (

Tom

[cliffy]

Pictures were shown at MooneyMax 2019 of Cont engine oil pans that had divots in the bottom and a hole clean through from sitting with water/acid in the bottom. Granted it takes a while but it will eventually eat out the oil pan. You gotta fly it long enough to make the water disappear. 

 

[carusoam]

Presence of water...

You guys are all on the right track...

Our engines are converting hundreds of pounds of fuel into hundreds of pounds of CO2 and water (roughly... There is CO too, and a bunch of O2 being used as well....)

Expect that a teaspoon full of moisture is inside the case after running...  where that moisture goes is the question... if the engine and oil are hot enough... the moisture will try to be vented out the case vent... as steam or water vapor...

The challenge of ground running... more moisture never leaves the case, the engine cools enough that more moisture condenses prior to leaving the case vent... afterwards the moisture has a tendency to evaporate, and condense, and sit on every surface possible...

Running is Good for moving oil around the engine, bad for the amount of moisture left behind...

Engine dehydrators can improve things... keep in mind some cylinders will be open to the exhaust, Some to the intake, and some not open to anything...

Dry winter air is pretty good at acting as a dehydrator... when warmed just a bit...

When using the dehydrator, follow the instructions closely... kind of like HVAC-eze... it can be easy to miss something important and end up back to the beginning...

Two basic rules to avoiding rust/oxidation...

• get the moisture out...
• keep the steel parts coated...
• don’t return the acidic water back into the case... for those with air/oil separators...

Combustion byproducts are acidic... water is pretty good at holding acids in solution.  Oil’s molecular weight will be attacked by acids... (generally speaking, i’m Not sure that the acid can actually attack molecular weight... but the long molecular chains get cised)

+1 for the MSer that experimented and actually measured the RH inside the engine during his experiments... and posted the results on MS.

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

5 minutes ago, carusoam said:

 and posted the Shultz on MS.

Schultz on MS:

[carusoam]

The whole fa-shizzle on MS...

I must have had Schultz on my mind... Shultz/results, pretty close. 

 

I’d like to thank Siri for her awesome AI talents...

It Some Times takes me three re-writes to get what I think i’m Writing out....

The capitals aren’t mine... she does that to express how quickly i’m Writing....

Often the i doesn’t get caps, but the Word after it does....  

Go MS!

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

So the lesson is, if doing a ground run to circulate the oil, keep it short? After all a few seconds is all you should need. A few seconds of running won’t create much byproducts (water, etc).


Tom

[jetdriven]

A friend of mine has a twin Comanche. We noted his left oil temperature is just about 180, and the right oil temperature is normal, like 210. . After shut down there a few drops of water into a pan while the right engine just had a little bit of oil. I changed his valve cover gaskets and the inside of his valve cover looks like this. 

[mike_elliott]

20 hours ago, Stephen said:

http://www.barkeraircraft.com/EngineDryerSportAvi.pdf  

DIY de-humidifier.

 

I would like one that doesn't use desiccant media as it seems that stuff is going to saturate quickly unless you use a ginormous media reservoir. 

I built a closed loop version of this, intake comes from crankcase vent, thru a jar of kittylitter to cleanse oil vapors, thru a filter screen then into the desiccant (I used a large plastic orange juice jar) then into the Engine oil fill tube. I bought some tube stoppers on smile.amazon.com, along with some brass metal tubing, a gal of dessicant, aquarium pump and aquarium filters. Hacienda Depot supplied the clear plastic delivery and return lines, neighbors cat supplied the kitty litter 

[Stephen]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

The whole fa-shizzle on MS...

I must have had Schultz on my mind... Shultz/results, pretty close. 

 

I’d like to thank Siri for her awesome AI talents...

It Some Times takes me three re-writes to get what I think i’m Writing out....

The capitals aren’t mine... she does that to express how quickly i’m Writing....

Often the i doesn’t get caps, but the Word after it does....  

Go MS!

-a-

ah.. using NLP to help with all that typing... finally peeking behind the Anthony magic curtain!  

[Stephen]

5 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

I built a closed loop version of this, intake comes from crankcase vent, thru a jar of kittylitter to cleanse oil vapors, thru a filter screen then into the desiccant (I used a large plastic orange juice jar) then into the Engine oil fill tube. I bought some tube stoppers on smile.amazon.com, along with some brass metal tubing, a gal of dessicant, aquarium pump and aquarium filters. Hacienda Depot supplied the clear plastic delivery and return lines, neighbors cat supplied the kitty litter 

Thanks Mike, would love to see a pic of the setup. I started an " engine dehumidifiers "

 thread in General to split this thread and start consolidating content. Also watch for the little brown cigars in the kitty litter. Sometimes the kitty tries to be too helpful.

[carusoam]

10 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

So the lesson is, if doing a ground run to circulate the oil, keep it short? After all a few seconds is all you should need. A few seconds of running won’t create much byproducts (water, etc).


Tom

Solves one problem but creates the other...

Hence the advice to fly it around...

Some often will ask about turning the prop by hand... Oil gets wiped off, and there is no splash lube ...

There is so much moisture after a flight... venting and cooling and drying each time... it would really help if your hanger was next to your home... 

This is a tough challenge to solve practically...

But, if you are good about connecting your battery to a battery conditioner... connecting a dehumidifier to the engine block is probably pretty easy...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

On 6/14/2019 at 2:11 PM, Stephen said:

Thanks Mike, would love to see a pic of the setup. I started an " engine dehumidifiers "

 thread in General to split this thread and start consolidating content. Also watch for the little brown cigars in the kitty litter. Sometimes the kitty tries to be too helpful.

I looked, i didnt keep any pics, Stephen, and gave it away with the plane when it was sold. It looks like the barker unit, however, with a larger aquarium pump and 2 stages of dehumidification with the kitty litter and dessicant.

[Stephen]

Ok thanks Mike

[Stephen]

 

 

Might need a case if anyone has a line on a good servisable unit. Jewell sending it out to check to see if it is repairable.

[cliffy]

Divco might be able to help

[Stephen]

Yes they and the outfit on sand springs are both going to get a call tomorrow

[ArtVandelay]

I went with new case, the difference between a used case that has been repaired and new was like $3k vs 4.


Tom

[Stephen]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I went with new case, the difference between a used case that has been repaired and new was like $3k vs 4.


Tom

Thanks Art, how long ago and where did you get your case Lycoming or a distributor  ?

[steingar]

On 6/10/2019 at 7:56 PM, Sabremech said:

 Thankfully there’s not many a_holes on MS. The ones that are, I have blocked! 

I guess that means you're missing out on all my witty verbiage.

 

Oh, and I had a busted camshaft on an 0360, but I think the prop strike might have had something to do with it.

Edited June 18, 2019 by steingar

[ArtVandelay]

Thanks Art, how long ago and where did you get your case Lycoming or a distributor  ?

6 months ago. Not sure, the engine shop took care of it.


Tom