Installing the GFC 500

[donkaye]

For those who are interested in what it takes to install the GFC 500, I'm supplying a couple of pictures.  It turns out from my perspective the GFC 500 installation is more involved than I had thought (not from my installers perspective, thankfully).  I've attached a couple of pictures showing the progress on my airplane.  The job is expected to be completed by the middle of next week.  I'll provide the final pictures at that time.  I'm looking forward to the flight test next week.  1. Pitch Trim Servo new sprocket   2. Pitch Servo left, and Yaw Servo right in process  3. Extensive panel rewiring to interface with the G500 TXi, GMA 35c, GTN 750/GTN 650, GCU 485, G5, and GAD 29B shown on the right, and of course the GFC 500 GMC 507 Controller.  4. Installed Pitch Trim Servo  5. Installed Roll Servo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[carusoam]

[carusoam]

Don,

you have supreme confidence in the guys doing your work.

I could do this once...

But seeing what it looks like all disconnected makes me feel a bit uneasy... 

Don’t think I could do it a second time....

Looking forward to the finished pics.

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

That's a lot of little wires!

[donkaye]

32 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Don,

you have supreme confidence in the guys doing your work.

I could do this once...

But seeing what it looks like all disconnected makes me feel a bit uneasy... 

Don’t think I could do it a second time....

Looking forward to the finished pics.

Best regards,

-a-

It is discomforting, but compared to the original panel upgrade, a little less so.  Still, I"m with you and won't feel secure until it is finished and working.  Sometimes I think I don't want to know what goes into an install, but I need the pictures to monitor progress.  Original upgrade picture as things were coming apart.

[gsxrpilot]

During one of these many panel upgrades, you should let Hector at Aerocomfort cover your yokes.

[donkaye]

6 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

During one of these many panel upgrades, you should let Hector at Aerocomfort cover your yokes.

I'd love to have them redone, but don't the yokes have to be removed and sent to them?  Too much rewiring to do it unless there is another way.

[gsxrpilot]

15 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I'd love to have them redone, but don't the yokes have to be removed and sent to them?  Too much rewiring to do it unless there is another way.

Yes, mine cost about $50/yoke to disconnect and reconnect the wiring through the yokes after getting them covered. And worth every penny.

[carusoam]

See what it would take to get those fancy Acclaim styled yokes...

Ergonomically designed to fit the hands....

[ArtVandelay]

I don’t understand why the major surgery, are you also installing the G5?
The GFC talks to the servos via Can bus, so based on their diagram the only connection required is to the G5?




Tom

[Bob - S50]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t understand why the major surgery, are you also installing the G5?
The GFC talks to the servos via Can bus, so based on their diagram the only connection required is to the G5?




Tom

The G5 IS the autopilot and is required.  The GMC507 just provides input to the G5.

[ArtVandelay]

The G5 IS the autopilot and is required.  The GMC507 just provides input to the G5.

Right, but IF you already have a G5, I thought he did, then the only connection is to the G5, and installation should be less invasive and less expensive.


Tom

[donkaye]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t understand why the major surgery, are you also installing the G5?
The GFC talks to the servos via Can bus, so based on their diagram the only connection required is to the G5?




Tom

The correct block diagram for me is shown below.  I had the ESI 500, which unfortunately needed to be removed along with all of its wiring.  I'm having the new G5 flush mounted, so the panel needed to be modified and G5 installed from scratch.  A place for the GAD 29B needed to be found and mounted, the TO/GA switch installed and everything interfaced to the G500 TXi.  All the wiring for these things and the GMC 507 Controller are within the Front Panel.  Then all the wiring to go to the Servos runs through the Panel.  Also, the whole radio stack needed to be removed and moved up to accommodate the GMC 507 Controller that is taller than the KC 192 Computer for the KFC 150 AP.  I could have saved that step had I removed the GCU 485, but I wanted to keep the extra functionality provided by it.  I need to check with Garmin, but with the GPSS switch on the 485 it may be possible to have a second source for GPSS using the GPSS of the TXi as a backup and using HDG mode like I had been doing with the KFC 150.  All in all, I think this is a fairly significant upgrade.

[KB4]

I would rest easy, zoom in on wires... Everything labeled nicely. Let us know how test flight goes. 

[bradp]

Don I just started to make requests for quotes for the GFC, so I’m really interested in your thread progress.  These are really informative pics and give a sense of why the labor seems to be >60 hrs total (or like 20 hrs per servo).  Yours is probably north of that given interconnects and other improvements.  

Looks like the mounting brackets are substantial.  Seems like the empennage autopilot serves are riveted to the forward bulkhead stringers?  How do the servos connect to the control tubes? Looks like you have some unfamiliar to me lengths of steel cable running to the back to an unfamiliar to me control arm of some sort on the end of the tube.   Also looks like the zinc was sanded off your control tubes near the servo and at the aft terminus.  Were they drilled for a cable to be installed or otherwise how were they attached?  

When I’m talking to avionics shops about this autopilot install and they’re telling me moonies are control cables like a Cessna... that conversation is done with and we’re moving on to the next place.  This is critical work.  The bracket installations look like they may be best suited for an A&P to tackle. 

Is the roll servo attached to the floor of the inspection compartment via rivets or screws? Same with the pitch trim bracket? Anchored to the floor as well?  How much of the parts / brackets required was provided with the servo kits versus had to be fashioned/ manufactured?  How clear was the installation manual in terms of guidance?  

Thanks much for the insight to the process  

 

[Aerodon]

Don, do you have any pictures of the magnetometer installation?  Aerodon

[donkaye]

On 5/27/2019 at 2:47 AM, bradp said:

Don I just started to make requests for quotes for the GFC, so I’m really interested in your thread progress.  These are really informative pics and give a sense of why the labor seems to be >60 hrs total (or like 20 hrs per servo).  Yours is probably north of that given interconnects and other improvements.  

Looks like the mounting brackets are substantial.  Seems like the empennage autopilot serves are riveted to the forward bulkhead stringers?  How do the servos connect to the control tubes? Looks like you have some unfamiliar to me lengths of steel cable running to the back to an unfamiliar to me control arm of some sort on the end of the tube.   Also looks like the zinc was sanded off your control tubes near the servo and at the aft terminus.  Were they drilled for a cable to be installed or otherwise how were they attached?  

When I’m talking to avionics shops about this autopilot install and they’re telling me moonies are control cables like a Cessna... that conversation is done with and we’re moving on to the next place.  This is critical work.  The bracket installations look like they may be best suited for an A&P to tackle. 

Is the roll servo attached to the floor of the inspection compartment via rivets or screws? Same with the pitch trim bracket? Anchored to the floor as well?  How much of the parts / brackets required was provided with the servo kits versus had to be fashioned/ manufactured?  How clear was the installation manual in terms of guidance?  

Thanks much for the insight to the process  

 

Brad, most of your questions I can't answer right now.  I'll be in a better position to answer them with better pictures when I get the plane back in a few days.  I don't have the install manual since it is proprietary.  I really wanted to read through it, but...

I believe the installation kits contain everything that is necessary to do the installation.  For example, the mounting plate for the Pitch and Yaw servos is part of a kit.  Regarding the Roll Servo, I want to get a better picture of it and how it was installed, too.  The Pitch Trim Servo requires a whole new installation with new sprocket wheel of much larger size than that of the KFC 150.  While my installer has his A/P license, I'm not sure  that is a prerequisite of doing this installation.

All will be answered in a few days with more  pictures and questions to my installer when we do the flight test near weeks end.  Once thing is clear, it's no 80 hours installation.  My educated guess is that a full 4 servo installation with new G5 and GAD 29B should cost between 25 and 30K.

[donkaye]

16 minutes ago, Aerodon said:

Don, do you have any pictures of the magnetometer installation?  Aerodon

I didn't do the magnetometer installation.  I'm using the GMU 11 magnetometer from the G500 TXi, so if the TXi goes out the G5 will revert to TRK.  I did the same thing with the ESI 500.  In the future I may add it, but I have been OK with the dual use for the ESI 500 so decided to go the same route with the G5.  The GMU 11 installation unexpectedly took a  full week while interference issues were resolved.  A lot of the wing wiring had to be changed at the time due to interference.  I would say that was the most difficult part of the G500 original installation.  So many people have had after installation issues judging from posts to BeechTalk if the magnetometer isn't installed correctly that  it was worth the extra time to get it right.

[ArtVandelay]

Don, do you have any pictures of the magnetometer installation?  Aerodon

Mine is installed in the tail:




Tom

[bradp]

Thanks so much Don. Looking forward to hear how the story progresses. 

Also Don - are you going from no yaw damper to YD now?  I’m interested to know whether that 4th axis is worth it. 

My GMU 11 lives in the right wing.  No interference issues there. No strobes anymore though. 

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Thanks so much Don. Looking forward to hear how the story progresses. 

Also Don - are you going from no yaw damper to YD now?  I’m interested to know whether that 4th axis is worth it. 

My GMU 11 lives in the right wing.  No interference issues there. No strobes anymore though. 

 

I'm going from no yaw damper to yaw damper.  I based this on the recommendation of Andy Rutherford, whose plane was used in the certification of the M20M.  He said that was one of the best additions from the KFC 150.  Since the Servos are so inexpensive, I just figured I'd go all in on the autopilot.  I've flown the Encore with the KFC 150 yaw damper and didn't notice any difference, but I think the Garmin unit has additional inputs to its operation making it far more robust.  We'll see...

[201Mooniac]

Don, is there a reason you went for the GAD-29B rather than the GAD-29?  The 29B is a couple of hundred dollars more expensive and provides analog autopilot outputs and isn't needed with the GFC-500.  Just wondering if there is something there I missed?

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

Don, is there a reason you went for the GAD-29B rather than the GAD-29?  The 29B is a couple of hundred dollars more expensive and provides analog autopilot outputs and isn't needed with the GFC-500.  Just wondering if there is something there I missed?

I'm not sure of the answer to that question, but the GAD 29B is called out in the Block Diagram for the G500 TXi interface.  The Avionics shops all bid the GAD 29B for the GFC 500 installation for the M20M.

[201Mooniac]

Yeah, I found the avionics shops didn't realize they could just go for the GAD-29, I had one say it was for experimental only.  Some of the block diagrams do show just the GAD-29B, some show GAD-29(B).  I checked with Steve and he said the GAD-29 would work and was less expensive so that's what I decided to do.

 

Figure B-28 of the TXi STC installation manual does call out GAD-29(B) which I'm told means the B is optional.

Edited May 28, 2019 by 201Mooniac

[donkaye]

I posted the progress of the installation on the wrong thread, so I'm reposting here.  There are a couple of bugs they are troubleshooting, but when they are found the ihstallation will be complete.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-H0aJitqJ-2JV0T2arxWxXBTGfFdTH-6?usp=sharing