SD Flyer Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 I'm about to sign a purchase agreement for an m20J, which is going to be the first airplane I own. Is there anything mooney-specific I should pay extra attention to before I ask/pay for pre-buy inspection? On Bonanzas - there is an AD about wing spar inspection/repair/replacement, on retractable gear cessnas - extra attention to hydraulic system since that one is really expensive to fix problems with, but I know nothin about Mooney... Are there any well-known problematic systems/ADs I should check? Quote
Oldguy Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 49 minutes ago, SD Flyer said: I'm about to sign a purchase agreement for an m20J, which is going to be the first airplane I own. Is there anything mooney-specific I should pay extra attention to before I ask/pay for pre-buy inspection? On Bonanzas - there is an AD about wing spar inspection/repair/replacement, on retractable gear cessnas - extra attention to hydraulic system since that one is really expensive to fix problems with, but I know nothin about Mooney... Are there any well-known problematic systems/ADs I should check? Leaking tanks (not a killer but can add a few AMU to the cost), dual headed mag within its 500 hour window, SB 208-B concerning corrosion of the steel frame, landing gear shock disks within tolerance, etc. All of these items should easily be handled by an experienced shop performing the PPI, or, better yet, by the Mooney Service Center (MSC) doing it. If you do a search on MS for "pre-buy checklist", you should come across one put together by one of the well respected mechanics who frequent the site, I believe. Also check in the downloads section. Quote
carusoam Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 Read the logs, take the notes, make the questions.... Then share your thoughts.... 40 year old machinery has a few things that are know before you go... it’s all in the logs... looking for three Mooney things...? Doesn’t make much sense... because you end up buying the whole plane either way. expensive airplane things... corrosion, fuel tanks, landing gear maintenance... you want to see every entry in the logs for these kinds of things... active planes are good... PPIs are important... Best regards, -a- Quote
gsxrpilot Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 Before you sign that purchase agreement, I'd get agreement on which shop will do the pre-buy. You're much better off if Mooney specialist does the pre-buy rather than just any random A&P/Shop. Quote
Yetti Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 I could have sworn we created a really good thread that answers this 2 2 Quote
jaylw314 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 Make sure your agreement has language that allows you time to review the pre-buy inspection (usually 4-7 days), and allows you to back out and retain your deposit. This should be standard, but you never know. Quote
SD Flyer Posted January 28, 2019 Author Report Posted January 28, 2019 Thank you for responses. I'm looking on logbooks right now and will pay extra attention to mags and bladders. I would really appreciate if somebody can recommend a mechanic to do a pre-buy in Los Angeles area. All I have found so far is https://www.baymarkaviation.com/aircraft-pre-buy-services but I don't know how good are they... Quote
Oldguy Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, SD Flyer said: Thank you for responses. I'm looking on logbooks right now and will pay extra attention to mags and bladders. I would really appreciate if somebody can recommend a mechanic to do a pre-buy in Los Angeles area. All I have found so far is https://www.baymarkaviation.com/aircraft-pre-buy-services but I don't know how good are they... The closest MSC according to Mooney.com: 4 - Foothill Aircraft Sales & Service, Inc. Address 1749 W. 13th St. Upland, CALIFORNIA 91786 United States Phone: 909.985.1977 Fax: 909.920.0066 Website: foothillaircraft.com Quote
carusoam Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, SD Flyer said: Thank you for responses. I'm looking on logbooks right now and will pay extra attention to mags and bladders. I would really appreciate if somebody can recommend a mechanic to do a pre-buy in Los Angeles area. All I have found so far is https://www.baymarkaviation.com/aircraft-pre-buy-services but I don't know how good are they... Pay extra attention to everything written in the logs... start with the newest logs first... you might not want to read any further before moving on... You will find some things not important.... like oil changes done on an engine no longer associated with the plane... Logs are really easy to read and take notes about... One line summaries is all it takes to know what has been done on the plane. The Yetti gave the best advice, above... use the search function.. there isn’t much new on that subject... Enjoy the hunt... Best regards, -a- Quote
Guest Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 Look under the “Downloads section” then under “safety” for a PPI list. The debate always happens, Annual inspection or PPI, before buying. I’m of the opinion that if it has a cover which can be removed or opened, you should look behind it. Better to spend a few more dollars to find out its a wreck while the money is still in your bank account. Clarence Quote
rbridges Posted January 28, 2019 Report Posted January 28, 2019 A lot of things can be bad, but corrosion in the wrong places can kill your bird in its tracks. Quote
ZuluZulu Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 5 hours ago, SD Flyer said: Thank you for responses. I'm looking on logbooks right now and will pay extra attention to mags and bladders. I would really appreciate if somebody can recommend a mechanic to do a pre-buy in Los Angeles area. All I have found so far is https://www.baymarkaviation.com/aircraft-pre-buy-services but I don't know how good are they... I know Kim Davidson Aviation at KSMO has handled a lot of Mooneys, including a friend’s C for 20+ years and another friend’s J for 15, just to name a couple. Don’t know what their availability for pre-buys is, though. What year J are you looking at? Quote
Bravoman Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 Get it inspected by a good mooney service center that knows where to look for the corrosion on the tubular frame structure that is unique to mooneys. I saw a prebuy occur at my MSC not long ago where a late model J had significant corrosion due to mouse urine that would have been expensive to repair and cratered the deal. The plane was gorgeous to look at and I could see a shop not experienced with Mooneys missing that if they didn’t know where to look. 1 Quote
bill98 Posted January 29, 2019 Report Posted January 29, 2019 Hopefully they sellers made digital copies of the log books. Upload them here some Mooney’s have AD’s requiring inspection every so many hours on their props. What kind of avionics does it have, how much time on the engine and how much time on the prop? Quote
M20F Posted January 31, 2019 Report Posted January 31, 2019 I reccomene a PPI that is also an annual. A PPI gives you limited options if the AP/I misses something. With an annual you have some leverage should say a 40+ yr old 337 is missed. Other then that corrision, spalled cam, and leaking tanks are probably the top three expensive things listed in order. Quote
Sparky Posted December 26, 2019 Report Posted December 26, 2019 To the items mentioned by other contributors I would add what I consider the 800 lb gorilla in this room.. On some models with electric landing gear, the actuators have a recommended inspection / replacement of an internal spring. These should be replaced every 1000 hours to ensure they do not fail. This is not a mandatory replacement but the gotcha is if a spring breaks the gear will not function. That means the gear will not retract nor will it extend. The actuator will be frozen and the significant thing to note is that the alternate extension procedure will not extend the gear. You will have to land gear up. So in prebuy consider the fact that the replacement springs are no longer available, remanufactured actuators are almost impossible to find and include the subject springs anyway, so your only option will be to replace the actuator with a PMA’d part from a current manufacturer (Eaton) to the tune of apx $20k .. I’m sure there are many actuators out there beyond the 1000 hour interval working just fine and will for the life of the airframe but the bulletin exists and there is always the risk of the problem occurring rendering the gear inoperable. 1 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 28, 2019 Report Posted December 28, 2019 Negative sparky... the springs are available... now, even manufactured with the proper level of quality... Welcome aboard, -a- 6 Quote
alextstone Posted December 28, 2019 Report Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Negative sparky... the springs are available... now, even manufactured with the proper level of quality... Welcome aboard, -a- That’s a first class response on several subtle levels...”Bravo” 1 Quote
FLYFST Posted January 4, 2020 Report Posted January 4, 2020 On 12/27/2019 at 7:52 PM, carusoam said: Negative sparky... the springs are available... now, even manufactured with the proper level of quality... Welcome aboard, -a- Carusoam Can you please provide contact information on the source for the springs, I am looking to buy two for the future. thanks - Hank Quote
carusoam Posted January 4, 2020 Report Posted January 4, 2020 Expect that they are available through your favorite MSC... The best photo details of the spring and all the related parts was put together by our favorite British Mooniac... @Hyett6420 If you don’t have a favorite MSC... call Dan at Lasar. He is the best parts guy in the Mooney world... Back in the day... the spring was made with some dubious quality materials/ heat treating... it would generate surface cracks with time and use... Surface cracks would propagate until the spring broke... So a time limit in service was given... It was pretty random if the plane got a good spring or a bad one... I am not aware of any shortage of these springs... Sparky is the only one to report that... he was here for a day or two, left that message and moved on... I expect that it was related to the shutdown that occurred at the same time... A shutdown and a broken spring would cause some concern... but calling Dan at Lasar should clear up any issues of parts availability. Let us know what you find out... Or are you looking for a lower cost resource? Best regards, -a- Quote
FLYFST Posted January 4, 2020 Report Posted January 4, 2020 Thanks for the quick response! I will follow up with Dan at LASAR and with @Hyett6420 as you suggest. It is always better to find a lower cost resource, but at this point I am just looking for a resource that can provide them. I will update this with what I find out. Best Regards - Hank 1 Quote
bradp Posted January 4, 2020 Report Posted January 4, 2020 The only thing that will kill an airframe is corrosion. All else is how much $ you want to throw at a problem and how astute you are about finding someone who will find that problem. This includes tank reseals and gear pucks. They are essentially wear items and should not be deal killers. Will your PPI include removing the seats and at least the lower interior panels to look at the tubes? Mine included running a magnet along the lower tube frame (SB-208). Especially important if the bird was stored outdoors. The Sheet metal panels below the seats hide what the back side of your spar looks like. This is where mice would go if your rat socks are torn. Wheel wells are especially important as you can see both the spar and sub spar - the seam can be corroded where dirt and salt lodge. All else Beside corrosion is adjustment of the dollar value. You need someone who knows the airframe to tell you what’s what. Quote
FLYFST Posted January 4, 2020 Report Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said: You mean this thread. Thanks! Quote
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