oops

[Yetti]

Something did or did not work....  at KGLE

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211532768742631&set=gm.575431366159417&type=3&ifg=1

[Yetti]

[Mooneymite]

Ouch!

Dang.  Not another one.  

[ArtVandelay]

It this a manual gear?

[flight2000]

Man they look tiny when sitting on the ground with their legs crossed....

Brian

[FloridaMan]

Why does it seem like Mooney pilots are way over represented in gear up incidents? Is it the lack of green lights on the modern ones; is it that there are more aircraft in the fleet that are flying more often; is it that they are often peoples’ first retractable airplane; or is it that I’m on mooneyspace and if I were a frequent Beechtalk user that it would seems like Bonanzas are always landing with their gear up?

[flight2000]

23 minutes ago, Antares said:

....if I were a frequent Beechtalk user that it would seems like Bonanzas are always landing with their gear up?

Well, after being over there for about six years, there have been a handful, but not more than two hands worth that I can remember.  Not sure what's up with all of the gear ups lately.  It's got to be killing our insurance rates though. 

Brian

[Guest]

Another one sold to an insurance company.

Clarence

[MyNameIsNobody]

Love how there is always somebody to take a photo...and post it.  Yes, please document a really bad day and talk about it on a forum for the (fill in the blank) time.  Refer to (fill in the blank) for the reasons etc...

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Love how there is always somebody to take a photo...and post it. ]

If there are no pictures it never happened.

[Mooneymite]

Everytime I see an aicraft on its belly I wonder why a skid to minimize damage is not built into the design of retractable gear aircraft.

A Yak 52 recently landed with the gear up.  There was virtually no damage to the belly.  New prop blades and an engine checkout...it was good to go.

[Sabremech]

3 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Everytime I see an aicraft on its belly I wonder why a skid to minimize damage is not built into the design of retractable gear aircraft.

A Yak 52 recently landed with the gear up.  There was virtually no damage to the belly.  New prop blades and an engine checkout...it was good to go.

On the tricycle gear Yak, the wheels stick out far rough to keep the airplane off the ground. We just had one at our airport recently and minimal damage as well. 

I have the one piece belly with skid plates on my Mooney.

[MyNameIsNobody]

8 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

If there are no pictures it never happened.

Exactly my point

 

[neilpilot]

50 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Everytime I see an aicraft on its belly I wonder why a skid to minimize damage is not built into the design of retractable gear aircraft.

It's my understanding that significant gear up damage is typically limited to prop, engine tear-down and gear doors.  Maybe also belly antennas.  A skid wouldn't matter all that much.  But maybe I'm missing something obvious.

[Mooneymite]

29 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

It's my understanding that significant gear up damage is typically limited to prop, engine tear-down and gear doors.  Maybe also belly antennas.  A skid wouldn't matter all that much.  But maybe I'm missing something obvious.

There are people on this forum who know the answer, but when I checked the work order for the gear up damage to my C prior to purchase, there was a significant amount of belly damage which might have been avoided with a skid.

Of course, a skid would probably cost a knot or 2, so no true Mooney owner would opt for such.  

[MyNameIsNobody]

Stringer damage is a likelihood as well as gear retract springs.

[jrwilson]

17 hours ago, flight2000 said:

Man they look tiny when sitting on the ground with their legs crossed....

Brian

I was thinking that too, but maybe that is just a really big dude in front, causing an optical illusion...

[MyNameIsNobody]

4 hours ago, jrwilson said:

I was thinking that too, but maybe that is just a really big dude in front, causing an optical illusion...

Spinner size calves.  They are all the rage...

[BradB]

13 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Everytime I see an aicraft on its belly I wonder why a skid to minimize damage is not built into the design of retractable gear aircraft.

A Yak 52 recently landed with the gear up.  There was virtually no damage to the belly.  New prop blades and an engine checkout...it was good to go.

@Mooneymite When I was shopping for my PA-46, they pointed out that there are small wheels built into the wings under small plastic covers that are meant to wear away in the event of a gear up.   I think that they are to keep the fuel tanks off of the ground.  But it is a neat idea that could easily be used to limit damage (but not to the prop obviously).

 

Brad

[carusoam]

Can somebody supply the logic to the YAK52’s retractable gear, that doesn’t get stowed?

We stow the year out of the wind flow, this we go faster...efficiently...

Leaving them hanging out Doesn’t make as much sense...

Al Mooney was an American genius! 

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

Leaving them hanging out Doesn’t make as much sense

...until you land gear up.

The Yak-52 was used for training.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Ditto for the A10 Warthog. Main gear wheels help support the plane if landed gear up. 

[steingar]

I think Mooneys are a bit overrepresented for gear ups because just about all are retractable.  Lots of fixed gear aircraft for other makers.

[Seth]

According to Aviation Consumer's recent gear up article in Oct 2017 - Cessna's lead the pack.

We are pro bias toward Mooney gear ups due to Mooneyspace and sharing the information in our smaller community.  If you look, 99% of Mooney Gear ups are inadvertent vs maintenance - I know there's the 1 or 2 here or there due to the back-spring, a broken piece, the J bar popping out, but that is so rare compared to other aircraft with jammed gear that will not descend.  The Mooney is SO reliable with it's gear design.

Mooney's are tied with Beach Bonanza and Piper Arrow's for a rate of 1.6 gear ups per thousand registrations during the recent study, but they are 99% pilot induced vs over 50% mechanical issues for the Bo and Arrow.  So, Mooney pilots do inadvertently land gear up more, but total gear ups are cognizant with the Bonanza and Arrow.

Fascinating - something Richard Collins very well may have written about if brought to his attention.

 

 

-Seth

 

From Aviation Consumer:

"To gain a sense of how gear-up incidents compare among models, we sorted the NTSB data to calculate gear-ups per 1000 aircraft registered. Two caveats: As we noted in the main article, only a fraction of gear-ups make it into NTSB records. Although we can’t confirm it, for this comparison, we’re assuming all models are equally reported or underreported to the NTSB.
Second, accurate registration by model is difficult to come by. The FAA’s Wichita Aircraft Certification Office helped us find what we believe is the best registration data available. While the Cessna 172RG is at the top of the list, that’s by dint of low registration numbers; only about 572 remain on the registry, compared to 3800 210s. We think the data reasonably show that Cessna singles are involved in more gear-ups than other models.
The second graph shows the relationship between maintenance-related gear-ups and gear collapses and inadvertent gear-ups. Again, it indicates the high incidence of problems with Cessna gear systems."

Edited May 1, 2018 by Seth

[MyNameIsNobody]

I will again state that installation of an audible gear and stall annunciation is a CB’s friend.