When to overhaul the turbocharger?

[alextstone]

What a nice sight to see! Overhauled cylinder, Turbo and exhaust installed, Ground runs completed and initial flight test completed, followed by 5 hours of additional flight time this weekend. Noticeable improvement in climb performance, vibration, etc. Just waiting now on the final bill...

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[Rick Junkin]

You took these pictures before your mechanic had a chance to safety wire the v-band clamps, right?

Nice shiny new exhaust! I've wondered what that looks like... LOL

Cheers,
Rick

[alextstone]

Hahaha! Yes, that was during the "dry fit". And the one v-band that's not new in the photo was replaced with a new one.

You took these pictures before your mechanic had a chance to safety wire the v-band clamps, right?
Nice shiny new exhaust! I've wondered what that looks like... LOL
Cheers,
Rick

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[LANCECASPER]

Not sure what they are charging you for the v-clamps, but . . .

The exhaust V-Band clamp part number  is Lycoming 40D23255-340M which sells for $1060 (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lycomingcouplings.php) .

However the Mooney service bulletin (http://mooney.free.fr/Mooney SB SI/283a.pdf)  says that the equivalent Aeroquip part number NH1009399-10 can be used. Aeroquip makes the above part for Lycoming - they are the exact same part (see picture below). Lycoming names them as their vendor on this part on this service instruction: https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Assembly and Torque Procedures for V-Band Couplings.pdf).

The Aeroquip part is a lot less at Aircraft Spruce (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/engineclamps.php). 

 

Some shops are buying the Aeroquip clamp and selling it for the Lycoming price. 

$500 here and $500 there adds up.

 

On another note, save your old exhaust system and send it off to get it "rebuilt" - you'll need it down the road.

[carusoam]

Nice pics, @alextstone

Great attention to detail, @Junkman Rick

Fabulous combination of financial and technical acuity, @LANCECASPER

 The power of MS at work...

Best regards,

-a-

[tomgo2]

Wow! RAJAY is selling their clamps too cheap! We sell RJ0193 clamps for $93 and change...

[Steve Skinner]

My baro compensating controller has also started to give me grief.

if you have to readjust your manifold pressure on descent yours will need some work. From memory it wasn’t cheap at 1600 hrs on the old engine.

SO at the same time I’ll be checking the turbo, wastegate and exhaust. It’s at 1100 hours so it’s time.

[Steve Skinner]

My baro compensating controller has also started to give me grief.
if you have to readjust your manifold pressure on descent yours will need some work. From memory it wasn’t cheap at 1600 hrs on the old engine.
SO at the same time I’ll be checking the turbo, wastegate and exhaust. It’s at 1100 hours so it’s time.

So now at 800 hrs I require a turbo Repair/Replacement.
Last flight I had a sudden drop in manifold pressure.
Going thru 18000 I dropped an inch or so and descended to 17000 for the balance of the flight
On inspection the center of the turbo let go.
So once off you can twist the hot and cold side.
There was exhaust gas everywhere.
Luckily all contained


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[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, Steve Skinner said:

So now at 800 hrs I require a turbo Repair/Replacement.
Last flight I had a sudden drop in manifold pressure.
Going thru 18000 I dropped an inch or so and descended to 17000 for the balance of the flight
On inspection the center of the turbo let go.
So once off you can twist the hot and cold side.
There was exhaust gas everywhere.
Luckily all contained


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If you had a sudden drop in pressure like that in flight - that might be grounds to divert immediately and get on the ground asap, and be possibly ready to declare an emergency.  Take it from a guy who had an exciting flight almost a year and a half ago.  Ending with a dead stick landing on a runway.  If you are flying and a major system like your power plant is showing signs of failure, don't just plow on and don't wait for complete failure before getting yourself on the ground.

Thankfully all is well.  And I don't mean to be knocking you.  Just talking out loud for the community.

[Steve Skinner]

Mitigating circumstances are:

I generally climb at 35” 2500 and saw no issues till I glanced at the MP and it was at 34” and looked to be dropping as I climbed further. It was only sudden as in I didn’t see it happen.

I’d had issues with the density controller and assumed that was the issue but a small exhaust gas leak was in the back of my mind.

At 17000 I was maintaining 35” with normal throttle so I elected to continue at 30” 2200 with no issues.

The turbo failure at less than 800 hrs is well before a half life rebuild.

In hindsight I agree with you knowing what actually occurred I should have been on the ground sooner rather than continuing. 

 

[aviatoreb]

23 minutes ago, Steve Skinner said:

Mitigating circumstances are:

I generally climb at 35” 2500 and saw no issues till I glanced at the MP and it was at 34” and looked to be dropping as I climbed further. It was only sudden as in I didn’t see it happen.

I’d had issues with the density controller and assumed that was the issue but a small exhaust gas leak was in the back of my mind.

At 17000 I was maintaining 35” with normal throttle so I elected to continue at 30” 2200 with no issues.

The turbo failure at less than 800 hrs is well before a half life rebuild.

In hindsight I agree with you knowing what actually occurred I should have been on the ground sooner rather than continuing. 

 

Im not knocking you.  You were in the situation and had all the instruments.  I just went off a single word you used and may have misinterpreted.  But Monday morning quarterback here - I think the wise path may have been to divert.

As I said, just over a year ago I had a complete engine failure due to a turbo failure in flight.  Luckily I found a runway and landed safely.  And a bit more triggered to divert at any such sign I might see.  So forgive me I am sharing that experience born hair trigger to divert.

Edited June 20, 2019 by aviatoreb

[LANCECASPER]

On 6/19/2019 at 8:39 PM, Steve Skinner said:

Mitigating circumstances are:

I generally climb at 35” 2500 and saw no issues till I glanced at the MP and it was at 34” and looked to be dropping as I climbed further. It was only sudden as in I didn’t see it happen.

I’d had issues with the density controller and assumed that was the issue but a small exhaust gas leak was in the back of my mind.

At 17000 I was maintaining 35” with normal throttle so I elected to continue at 30” 2200 with no issues.

The turbo failure at less than 800 hrs is well before a half life rebuild.

In hindsight I agree with you knowing what actually occurred I should have been on the ground sooner rather than continuing. 

 

Turbos in the M20M usually need replacement at around 1000 hours. I doubt that there's ever been one that went to engine TBO.

[Steve Skinner]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:44 AM, Junkman said:

Is there an indication of when a turbocharger is in need of overhaul?

I am approaching 1000 hours on my turbo since its last overhaul (before my ownership), and from all performance measures that I can see from the cockpit it is still doing its job without degradation. I've read here that some folks overhaul at 1000 hours - is that based on time or performance? I've also read that the turbo can last to the engine TBO. I'm a fan of IRAN/IROC in most cases so I'd like to know what I can be looking for to indicate the repair/replace is drawing near. I've searched here but didn't come up with anything that answers this for me, and although I'd guess that a decrease in performance and abnormal whining sounds from the firewall is what I should be looking for (like in a car) I'm not one to guess when it comes to my airplane...

Cheers,
Rick

 

8 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Turbos in the M20M usually need replacement at between 750-1000 hours. I doubt that there's ever been one that went to engine TBO.

My last turbo went 1300 hrs so I think Ive been ripped off.

I responded on this topic because of the original question asked. Ive always added pireps where possible to increase the knowledge of others that might find themselves in this position.

I agree in hindsight I should have landed for at least a review of the engine.

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

The fact that anything spinning that fast in that harsh of an environment (1600+ degrees F) lasts hundreds of hours is amazing.

[Cody Stallings]

On 6/19/2019 at 9:07 PM, LANCECASPER said:

The fact that anything spinning that fast in that harsh of an environment (1600+ degrees F) lasts hundreds of hours is amazing.

I agree.

Those working conditions have got to be total Hell Heat wise.