Advice on a Mooney purchase

[MyNameIsNobody]

Hey 52k, on behalf of the responses...I apologize.  Did you get an answer that is helpful?

[Sethg52000]

Yes, I got answers to questions I hadn't even thought of yet! All good and useful stuff! Another Mooney owner told me to join this site and ask any Mooney question and I wouldn't be disappointed. He was right!

Thanks everyone for your wisdom! I am going to visit a prospective E model next week, it will be the first time being hands on with a Mooney. The airframe is perfect for my mission, I am a little concerned I will be cramped, as I am "bigger than the average bear". 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Sethg52000

[jaylw314]

16 minutes ago, Sethg52000 said:

Yes, I got answers to questions I hadn't even thought of yet! All good and useful stuff! Another Mooney owner told me to join this site and ask any Mooney question and I wouldn't be disappointed. He was right!

Thanks everyone for your wisdom! I am going to visit a prospective E model next week, it will be the first time being hands on with a Mooney. The airframe is the perfect for my mission, I am a little concerned I will be cramped, as I am "bigger than the average bear". 

I suspect most of the stories about Mooney's being cramped have to do with ingress/egress.  Once you're in, the cabin is normal sized and leg room is actually far superior to 172's and Cherokee's.  I have to sit all the way forward to reach the pedals, and when my wife is all the way back she complains she has to wave at me.

Good luck!

[gsxrpilot]

I'm on the wider side as well. 250/5'10" and I regularly fly with a buddy who is about 225. The Mooney cockpit is quite comfortable even for us.

[MIm20c]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm on the wider side as well. 250/5'10" and I regularly fly with a buddy who is about 225. The Mooney cockpit is quite comfortable even for us.

I find the shoulder room a little tight. Helps if you stagger the seats in flight. 

[Sethg52000]

Does anyone have experience working with All American Aircraft Sales in Spring Branch, TX? 

[gsxrpilot]

Yes, lots of us.  What do you want to know?

[Sethg52000]

That's good to hear, they have an airplane that is on my list, and it falls in line with your advice. Just curious on the experiences folks have had with them. 

[kortopates]

That's good to hear, they have an airplane that is on my list, and it falls in line with your advice. Just curious on the experiences folks have had with them. 

Very positive experience here and being in the Mooney community for a couple decades and also a CFI meeting a lot of new owners I can say they have among the best if not the very best reputation among Mooney brokers for being honest, straight and fair.


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[carusoam]

I first contacted AAA to learn about buying an M20C in the mid 90s...  they were incredibly helpful explaining details regarding first time ownership.

I also found they specialize in some pretty nice planes.

Later in life, a decade later, I was visiting AAA because they had an Ovation for sale.  Two weeks later, that Ovation was getting a PPI finished at DMax’s...  another two weeks I was flying the Ovation home as a transition training exercise...

The best part of AAA and DMax... They are very straight forwards. Promises were made, promises were kept....

David at AAA does a lot of the legwork. He must have worked with 1,000s of Mooney owners....

David said to me, ‘don’t forget this pink piece of paper. It’s the temporary registration for the plane...’

Apparently, AAA knows pilots as well as they know airplanes....

If able, go visit AAA.  Sit in as many Mooneys as you can.  Get a feel for what is available. Get a feel for what all the options are.  Ask as many questions as you can.  David and Jimmy are not afraid to answer with experience.

They are unlike ordinary salesguys.  They sell a premium product and know the product very well.

Use caution... it is easy to go in with a simple budget, but for a few amu more, There is another bird with... and another... and another...  

briefly, I had a good experience at AAA.  The memory remains...

my background... I used to buy and sell industrial machinery... (if that helps)

Best regards,

-a-

[Sethg52000]

Very helpful, thank you! 

[Rumblestrip]

12 hours ago, Sethg52000 said:

That's good to hear, they have an airplane that is on my list, and it falls in line with your advice. Just curious on the experiences folks have had with them. 

If it's this one, it looks very interesting!

 

[Sethg52000]

That's the one!

[jaylw314]

On 3/3/2018 at 6:15 AM, Sethg52000 said:

Does anyone have experience working with All American Aircraft Sales in Spring Branch, TX? 

I bought my M20J from them.  They are, as my friend put it, used car salesmen, so there's always some of that feeling, but they are reputable, and gave me no surprises.  Everything we agreed on, they kept their end of the deal in a timely fashion.

Mine was a little unusual because they actually owned the aircraft, so that might have made negotiations more straightforwards.  I think most of their sales are actually brokered, so I don't know how much more complex that makes negotiations.

[gsxrpilot]

22 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I bought my M20J from them.  They are, as my friend put it, used car salesmen, so there's always some of that feeling, but they are reputable, and gave me no surprises.  Everything we agreed on, they kept their end of the deal in a timely fashion.

Mine was a little unusual because they actually owned the aircraft, so that might have made negotiations more straightforwards.  I think most of their sales are actually brokered, so I don't know how much more complex that makes negotiations.

Actually most of the planes they sell, they own. Typically if they are going to sell your plane, they will negotiate the price with you and then purchase it. After that, they'll fix it up a bit and list it for sale on Controller. It's pretty rare that they take a plane on consignment or straight broker.

[DonMuncy]

14 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Actually most of the planes they sell, they own. Typically if they are going to sell your plane, they will negotiate the price with you and then purchase it. After that, they'll fix it up a bit and list it for sale on Controller. It's pretty rare that they take a plane on consignment or straight broker.

I don't know if they have changed, but at one time they did it both ways. I bought mine from (through) them back in 2000, as a brokered deal. To add to what others have reported, I highly recommend them. I did not know anything about them until I bought my plane, and I now consider both Jimmy and David friends. If they say it, "you can take it to the bank".

[jaylw314]

19 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Actually most of the planes they sell, they own. Typically if they are going to sell your plane, they will negotiate the price with you and then purchase it. After that, they'll fix it up a bit and list it for sale on Controller. It's pretty rare that they take a plane on consignment or straight broker.

At least a couple years ago, it looked like most of the planes they had were brokered rather than owned by them.  Sometimes it's hard to tell looking at the listings, but usually it's pretty clear.  Admittedly, I don't know what their usual practice is before or since...

[Sethg52000]

Thanks once again folks for your help. I visited an airplane on my list, relatively local E, first I'd sat in one, while not huge on the inside, doable for me and my mission. Nice airplane (but older panel and tanks not resealed in quite a while though), nice owner. Wanted to make an offer, but was advised to see other airplanes before deciding. So next week I'll go to Spring Branch and see about the E they have (newer panel and O&N bladders). 

[Bob_Belville]

7 hours ago, Sethg52000 said:

Thanks once again folks for your help. I visited an airplane on my list, relatively local E, first I'd sat in one, while not huge on the inside, doable for me and my mission. Nice airplane (but older panel and tanks not resealed in quite a while though), nice owner. Wanted to make an offer, but was advised to see other airplanes before deciding. So next week I'll go to Spring Branch and see about the E they have (newer panel and O&N bladders). 

Jimmy Garrison has a value worksheet for Mooneys linked at MooneyFlyer. It adds $1000 for a plane equipped with bladders. In my opinion that's conservative, particularly if you're comparing to another plane that might need resealing soon. 

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/

[wcb]

38 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Jimmy Garrison has a value worksheet for Mooneys linked at MooneyFlyer. It adds $1000 for a plane equipped with bladders. In my opinion that's conservative, particularly if you're comparing to another plane that might need resealing soon. 

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/

Pretty cool tool but it is missing some items for my bird.  2 G5's, Gami, JPI EDM 900, and RayJay TN.  It also looks like full retail value or MSRP verse what most of the CB community are looking to pay.  That being said anyone have a clue what the above items add to the retail price (I of course know it is not the full cost of each that was installed [if so I have a plane for sale])?

[steingar]

Also, start thinking about transition training.  I only know of one Mooney proficient CFI in this area.  How are you going to get it back?  Have you got anyone in mind where it's going?  This was definitely an issue when I got mine.

[Kmac]

I made a deposit on an M20C at, surprisingly enough, Spring Branch (1T7).  I plan to fly it back in a few weeks.  I hired a local instructor to check me out who has over 3k hours in Mooneys and 288 in M20C's.  You can PM me if you want his info.

I posted a few weeks ago this thread:

I'll make a post when I get it home.

[Bob_Belville]

4 hours ago, wcb said:

Pretty cool tool but it is missing some items for my bird.  2 G5's, Gami, JPI EDM 900, and RayJay TN.  It also looks like full retail value or MSRP verse what most of the CB community are looking to pay.  That being said anyone have a clue what the above items add to the retail price (I of course know it is not the full cost of each that was installed [if so I have a plane for sale])?

Yeah, my old E comes out over $125 k on Jimmy's calculator before David's cowl and Hawk Paint. I used 60% of cost for some new stuff that Jimmy didn't value on Es. (Aspen, JPI 930, PFS, FS 510) 

[jetdriven]

Mine prices out to 104k. Which is crazy since it has a fresh factory engine on it, fresh paint, and a GTN750 with ads-b. 

[Bob_Belville]

8 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Mine prices out to 104k. Which is crazy since it has a fresh factory engine on it, fresh paint, and a GTN750 with ads-b. 

That's odd to me. Jimmy delta values for engines (mine, probably yours) at $13 per hour, the airframe for my E is $1.80 per hour.  

I wonder if your '77J is a good bit lower than a later model? It's easy to play with the calculator to see what it would be if it were an '82 E.G.