Flaps

[Releew]

Hello All.....

On today's flight I could not get the flaps to retract upon landing. They were stuck in the landing position (full down, no movement up at all).  Removed the belly and took a hard look at the switches.  Nothing loose or obvious.  There are two micro limits on the Tube (Motor) that appear to be for Full Down and Take off positions and two on the Flap mechanism contacted by a striker that appears to be an indicator for flaps fully retracted.   

I was working with very limited tools so we could not do a complete voltage check so I did the typical shake the switch and listen for the click as I manually triggered each switch.  After making ZERO progress I simply rotated the motor manually (LOTS OF TURNS) until manually retracting the flaps.  It was enough to get the bird home.  

Seeing nothing wrong with any of the switches in the belly I took the flap switch out of it mount in the console.  The terminals were slightly oxidized so I cleaned it up and shot some cleaner on the terminals, re-tightened and the flaps appear to be working fine. The switch looks like a sealed unit so I doubt squirting cleaning fluid in the switch did any good.  But....  the back end was oxidized and needed some attention.

My concern is the flaps working again was a fluke....and there really is a bad switch somewhere in the system.

Any input would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Rick

 

[Marauder]

Hello All.....
On today's flight I could not get the flaps to retract upon landing. They were stuck in the landing position (full down, no movement up at all).  Removed the belly and took a hard look at the switches.  Nothing loose or obvious.  There are two micro limits on the Tube (Motor) that appear to be for Full Down and Take off positions and two on the Flap mechanism contacted by a striker that appears to be an indicator for flaps fully retracted.   
I was working with very limited tools so we could not do a complete voltage check so I did the typical shake the switch and listen for the click as I manually triggered each switch.  After making ZERO progress I simply rotated the motor manually (LOTS OF TURNS) until manually retracting the flaps.  It was enough to get the bird home.  
Seeing nothing wrong with any of the switches in the belly I took the flap switch out of it mount in the console.  The terminals were slightly oxidized so I cleaned it up and shot some cleaner on the terminals, re-tightened and the flaps appear to be working fine. The switch looks like a sealed unit so I doubt squirting cleaning fluid in the switch did any good.  But....  the back end was oxidized and needed some attention.
My concern is the flaps working again was a fluke....and there really is a bad switch somewhere in the system.
Any input would be very much appreciated!
Thanks!
Rick
 

Went through this a year or so ago. Clean every switch down there with a good quality electronics cleaner.






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[StevenL757]

Took the words right outta' my mouth.

A clean Mooney is a happy Mooney.

[carusoam]

All switches and no relays for the mid Bodies?

The Long Body has some expensive relays to almost adequately do the same job.

Just wondering when relays crept into the M20 fuselage....

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

Wally world for contact cleaner.

Flush limit switches with contact cleaner.   Exercise switch.  

Rinse and repeat several times.

Did mine last annual.   It would go down to mid flap and not come back up.   To get back up you had to go all the way down.  Then if would come up.

Still working a year later.

 

[Cyril Gibb]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

All switches and no relays for the mid Bodies?

My 75F has relays

[Releew]

I have two relays in the system mounted on the plate with the "Flaps Up" switches.  Looks like Mooney made an effort to make this very complicated.  

Does anyone have a schematic?  Would be great to see the logic of the relays.  They must use them for circuit isolation or latching because they limits could be wired directly for permissive and position logic. (up-take off-landing)

My concern is I went  from not able to retract the flaps to working perfectly with a little squirt of electronics cleaner and a screwdriver.  Its never that easy!!

Rick

[carusoam]

The relays for the Long Body are industrial parts that, in those environments, get millions more operations per year than we could possibly use...

The other main difference is the environment we operate in.... lots of sitting in a less than controlled environment...

First line of defense... a good quality electronics cleaner...

The relays for the Long Bodies have clear housings.  When an internal fault occurs the relay's case gets Smokey colored on the inside...

More than a good cleaner is needed for that...

This is mostly second hand knowledge I have gained from reading MS...

Best regards,

-a-

[larryb]

Rick:

Does your plane have a Take Off pre-select for the flaps? Or do you manually hold down the flap switch until the flaps reach the Take Off position?

I'll attach my schematic for the version with Take Off pre-select. That's what I have on my plane. 

The Mooney flap operation is simple and elegant, but there are several points that are not clear from the schematics

1. The cockpit switch is not a standard DPDT center-off switch. In the up and down positions, it is standard. But in the center position the poles are split, one up and one down.
2. In the Take Off position, both relays are energized. This still results in the motor being off, but it is not intuitive.
3. The Take Off limit switches do not activate at the same time. They are slightly offset. This is what allows both relays to be energized at Take Off position.

For the limit switches, two options are in the IPC (Illustrated Parts Catalog) 

 V3L-3 has the roller actuator built-in. It is very expensive, so the V3-1 with JV-5 is a much more economical choice.

1: Honeywell V3-1 with JV-5 roller actuator

2: Honeywell V3L-3

limit switch
Honeywell V3-1
https://www.alliedelec.com/honeywell-v3-1/70119063/

roller lever:
Honeywell JV-5
https://www.alliedelec.com/honeywell-jv-5/70120150/

 

     

 

 

[Releew]

Plane has pre-selected positions, Up, Takeoff and Landing as depicted in the schematic.

And THANK YOU!

Best Regards,

Rick

[RobertGary1]

I had similar but was able to get them to eventually come up by shaking. I took a can of contact cleaner to the limit switches in the belly. Knock on wood its not happened again. 

 

-Robert

[jlunseth]

Having the same problem.  My annual is coming up, the relays are in the belly, so I am waiting for the annual to have them get into the belly and clean all the contacts.  The one thing I can offer is that I land with half flaps, not full, and when I am flying practice approaches I also will put in half flaps just to slow the plane to approach speed.  The one trick I have found that seems to work, is to push the switch down first.  The flaps will start moving, and you can then immediately push the switch up and get them to fully retract.  Either that, or just fly around with the switch up and wait for the flaps to decide they will comply.  Its kind of a pain because you are stuck at max flaps speed, which is only 112 KIAS in my aircraft, so you are not going to go anywhere very fast, either that or you do it and have a repair bill to pay on the flaps.