Acclaim Type S market value.

[Littlefrogfeet]

Guys,

I’m considering jumping into a 2009 Acclaim Type S, 1050 Total Time, no damage history, 310hp STC

Anyone know the general market value at this time?

Thanks

[HRM]

You could put the data into AOPA Vref and get a ballpark to start with.

[Littlefrogfeet]

I’ve tried that.  The vref results are not realistic.

[N6758N]

I would think somewhere in the $300-350k range, based on browsing ads. Also, you might want to see if it has had a top overhaul recently, the big bore continentals require that around 1,000 hrs more often than not...

[StevenL757]

If you’re referring to N79333, the price seems commensurate with the equipment on board and the lack of damage history.  I looked through the logbooks.  There are a few things I’d question, and a few things I would change as far as maintenance practices, but overall, it looks like a solid airplane.  Keep in mind it doesn’t appear ADS-B compliant (the transponder appears to be a GTX33, not a GTX33-ES), but that’s easily changed.  Personally, I’d consider adding an L3 NGT9000+ mounted under the MFD to give you that capability, as well as active traffic, but your thoughts and goals may vary.

Steve

[Littlefrogfeet]

It’s listed on controller

220 STOH, FIKI, AIR CONDITIONING 

[Littlefrogfeet]

Steven, interested in the items you question in the logbooks.

the only thing I’d add is active traffic and ADS-B

[StevenL757]

7 minutes ago, Littlefrogfeet said:

Steven, interested in the items you question in the logbooks.

the only thing I’d add is active traffic and ADS-B

Sure, PM me to discuss.  I’ll be out until early-afternoon, but happy to chat when I get back.

[Bug Smasher]

Awesome airplane & my dream machine. I'm curious what the useful load is with FIKI and AC. 

[rpcc]

Yikes - there are some very nice comparable bravos that will save you some $$$ for a small trade off in speed.  say $150k saved.   You could have the acclaim, or a bravo and a condo in florida for the same $.

[M016576]

31 minutes ago, rpcc said:

Yikes - there are some very nice comparable bravos that will save you some $$$ for a small trade off in speed.  say $150k saved.   You could have the acclaim, or a bravo and a condo in florida for the same $.

by that rational, though, you could have an ovation and a vacation home in FLA... or a J/K and an apartment complex in Boise.   

[exM20K]

Regarding Vref, and I state this as one of the largest-volume Diamond dealers for almost a decade, The dealer (more robust) version is usable principally as a checkbox for loan approvals.  The valuations are naive.  I do not know of a significant player in the Diamond dealer community that reports transactions to the company, and the valuation changes appear to be formulaic, not based on actual transactions.  Moreover, the equipment valuation adjustments are incomplete or missing eg:FIKI vs STC TKS.  They are different.

There also is no consideration for how equipment plays together on a particular plane.  I do not believe there are many FIKI / AC Acclaims out there, and that's for a good reason: useful load.

Lastly, there simply are not very many good airplanes (diamond or mooney) for sale; nearly every Diamond I sold last year was sold privately - not on controller, and that's how I bought my acclaim in 2016.  The best you can do as a buyer is to evaluate individual airplanes against each other and make what you believe are reasonable bids for the one you perceive best fits your mission and budget.  

The supply situation may loosen up in the near future since recapture is no longer such an issue on used aircraft trade-ups.  With 100% expensing for business use aircraft, recapture on a sold aircraft is immediately offset by expensing on a more expensive trade-up plane.

On paper, and without the benefit of looking for scary stuff in the logbooks, N79333 appears to me to be underpriced at $395,000.  If you can live with the useful load and subject to a careful inspection, it would be a good choice, and I don't expect it would stay on the market for long.

 

[ArtVandelay]

by that rational, though, you could have an ovation and a vacation home in FLA... or a J/K and an apartment complex in Boise.   

Or take it one step further, don’t buy an airplane and have 2 vacation homes, with enough money left over to lease a very nice car.
Trying to make financial sense of buying an airplane is a foolish exercise.

[rpcc]

24 minutes ago, M016576 said:

by that rational, though, you could have an ovation and a vacation home in FLA... or a J/K and an apartment complex in Boise.   

Rational would be to buy lots of plane tickets instead of this , but that would be a different kind of fun.  

Assuming you are financing this, If the 2k per month cost of money is ok, why not buy new for 4k per month.  

You'd have a new plane, exactly like you want it, with a warranty and some depreciation you could use if your situation allows.   If I had no problem spending 2k - I'd be looking very closely at 4k - just saying.

Market value is what you its worth to you - that is the value of the plane.

Why would someone list a plane like this and omit the useful load.  The airframe logs have the TKS being installed, but do not include the w+b information - that's on a 337 that's omitted.  

 

[smccray]

59 minutes ago, exM20K said:

On paper, and without the benefit of looking for scary stuff in the logbooks, N79333 appears to me to be underpriced at $395,000.  If you can live with the useful load and subject to a careful inspection, it would be a good choice, and I don't expect it would stay on the market for long.

 

Mooneys (Moonies?) are in short supply which I suspect is driving up pricing.  Turbo long bodies are in short supply.

I would look at market value of the Columbia/Cessna 400 and the SR22 turbo of the same era to look at market values.  I'm not sure what year the FIKI SR22 was available, but I do know that the Columbia 400 isn't available with FIKI.  The TTX is available FIKI.

Directionally I would look at the 2008 at $395K as a full retail advertised price.  It doesn't seem like a wildly overpriced number, but I also wouldn't look at that plane as a screaming deal either.  I wouldn't be surprised if it sells quickly near the asking price given the limited supply.  It's a fire breathing monster and if I had enough money that I didn't care I'd pull the trigger on that thing in a heartbeat.  Most of my flying is solo and that combination of equipment is very special.

Biggest issue is useful load- I would bet there is less than 300 lbs of useful load with full fuel and a full TKS tank.  Looking at range and legal loads the SR22 or a TTX both with FIKI are going to be tough competition- and they certainly are competition for this plane.

 

 

[KSMooniac]

I remember seeing an early Acclaim listed years ago...it was fully optioned with FIKI, AC, O2, and 130 gallon tanks. I calculated at the time that full tanks left 70 legal pounds left over for the people. That is a glaring example of why Mooney needs to increase the max gross weight of these birds.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[exM20K]

28 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

I remember seeing an early Acclaim listed years ago...it was fully optioned with FIKI, AC, O2, and 130 gallon tanks. I calculated at the time that full tanks left 70 legal pounds left over for the people. That is a glaring example of why Mooney needs to increase the max gross weight of these birds.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

yeah, there might be a few use cases where one small individual needs to fly really far, but that's a small market.  As I work through loading on mine, it really is the landing weight that is the constraint most often. My understanding is that it's mostly a landing gear / drop test limitation, and if Mooney were to invest in new landing gear design, I'm confident that they'd sell a bunch more.  MTOW Vso is well below the current 61KCAS maximum (currently 59), and when Cirrus went to the increased max gross weight, they got the Vso up to something like 64KCAS with a seat and chute redesign.  It's probably not helpful for safety, but it sure is for utility.

 

And if they could make it retrofittable, they could find willing buyers for this max gross weight increase among M20R and TN owners - maybe as much as 10% of airframe value?

Edited January 15, 2018 by exM20K

[Littlefrogfeet]

Drum Roll.... useful load is 830.74

-100 gals fuel

-6 gals TKS fluid

Leaves 175 lbs.. so you have to choose if you are going to take the wife, fuel, or TKS fluid.   :@)

Think I’ll just keep my J model

Edited January 15, 2018 by Littlefrogfeet

[Joe Zuffoletto]

This Acclaim driver only tops off fuel if traveling a long way, like Denver to Northern CA. I also keep the TKS tanks half-filled because I've never needed more than a gallon or two in the worst of the conditions that I've encountered.

Other than that I rarely fill to more than 50 or 60 gallons. 60 gallons gets me comfortably from Petaluma to any other location on the West Coast, with plenty of reserves.

Believe it or not, an Acclaim really can fly with less than full fuel and TKS!

[aviatoreb]

5 hours ago, M016576 said:

by that rational, though, you could have an ovation and a vacation home in FLA... or a J/K and an apartment complex in Boise.   

Or a 152 and a whole trailer park in Oklahoma.

Or a vespa and a parking place in a parking structure Manhattan.

[Guest]

Lack of useful load is also caused by the empty weight being too high from an overbuilt structure.  Most long body Mooney’s weight 300 pounds more than my IO720 power Comanche.

Clarence

[Niko182]

That acclaim is located on my field, and used to be parked right next to my set of rentals. It is truly a beautiful aircraft.

as for the useful load, that will probably be an amazing 2 person cross country bird. considering empty weight includes the Tks fluid,

and youll only need half of it you already increase your useful load load to approx 860lbs. remove 400lbs for you, your wife, and luggage.

and you're left with 460lbs. 460/6 = 76.7 gals

these numbers are unlikely to be accurate, but say you get 200 ktas at 17 gph, you can fly a bit more than 4 hours, which not a lot of people

are willing to do.

also as multiple people have stated, ovations, eagles and acclaims seem to be on quite a shortage as of now.

[BradB]

If you are looking to add ADSB to an acclaim and want traffic displayed on the G1000, plan on a GTX345R.   Was about 7AMU installed when I did it on mine.  

Maybe work that into any offer that you are considering on making.

Brad

Edited January 15, 2018 by BradB

[aviatoreb]

5 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I remember seeing an early Acclaim listed years ago...it was fully optioned with FIKI, AC, O2, and 130 gallon tanks. I calculated at the time that full tanks left 70 legal pounds left over for the people. That is a glaring example of why Mooney needs to increase the max gross weight of these birds.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Real and modern winglets could increase effective wing span, and beef up the landing gear a bit more....

[ArtVandelay]

yeah, there might be a few use cases where one small individual needs to fly really far, but that's a small market.  As I work through loading on mine, it really is the landing weight that is the constraint most often. My understanding is that it's mostly a landing gear / drop test limitation, and if Mooney were to invest in new landing gear design, I'm confident that they'd sell a bunch more. 

Or at least have separate takeoff and landing max gross weights, not sure how much spread is allowed.