The engine overhaul

[Sabremech]

I’ll become a believer in Additives when I start hearing it from the engine shops that do overhauls.  They’re the ones who’ll see if it works or not and right now, that’s not what they’re seeing.

 

[jetdriven]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

highly polished metal surfaces take a long time to start rusting.   That is one of the fallacies of the camguard pictures.

Thing is they can’t even tell us which lifter and cam combinations won’t spall. Like my boss’s 1979 piper arrow built in 1987 with 2300 hours. It did a ARC race 3 years ago. It sits 3 months at s time too. 

[cliffy]

No one has mentioned starting with 2000 RPM for the first minute or so until the pilot  "thinks" about slowing it down.  I see that every day at our airport. Cirrus are big offenders here. Must be the way they are taught.

 

[MARZ]

14 hours ago, cliffy said:

No one has mentioned starting with 2000 RPM for the first minute or so until the pilot  "thinks" about slowing it down.  I see that every day at our airport. Cirrus are big offenders here. Must be the way they are taught.

 

Sarcasm on ..... seems reasonable to me - the faster the rpm the quicker I get oil to my critical engine parts ...... sarcasm off 

[N6758N]

14 hours ago, cliffy said:

No one has mentioned starting with 2000 RPM for the first minute or so until the pilot  "thinks" about slowing it down.  I see that every day at our airport. Cirrus are big offenders here. Must be the way they are taught.

 

Yep, its always the Cirrus guys! Always makes me laugh, birds of a feather....

[Hank]

18 hours ago, cliffy said:

No one has mentioned starting with 2000 RPM for the first minute or so until the pilot  "thinks" about slowing it down.  I see that every day at our airport. Cirrus are big offenders here. Must be the way they are taught.

 

And to think that I feel bad when mine starts at 1200-1300 . . . Throttle position is hard to get accurate every time!

[ArtVandelay]

I would think it would be better to be above 1000 RPMs instead of below, given our engines require oil to be splashed around. The sooner oil is dispersed the better.

[Browncbr1]

5 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

I would think it would be better to be above 1000 RPMs instead of below, given our engines require oil to be splashed around. The sooner oil is dispersed the better.

Yea, I usually try for 1000-1100 for the cam splash too and I preheat under under low 50's

[Browncbr1]

21 hours ago, Sabremech said:

I’ll become a believer in Additives when I start hearing it from the engine shops that do overhauls.  They’re the ones who’ll see if it works or not and right now, that’s not what they’re seeing.

 

it may just be anecdotal, but my A&P and IA both said they have torn down 3x 3000+SMOH engines which used avblend through their lives and they looked new inside.  (no sludge)  They were O-320 lycomings in cessnas used for training.   I know Avblend markets that it "soaks" into metal, but I don't really buy into that...The surface of the metal is where the action is anyway.  That said, it seems there is something in it that helps suspend dirt and carbon to keep sludge from building.  Someone told me once that there was no sludge because those engines ran everyday training, but most cars end up with tons of sludge even if they are run everyday...   Heck, maybe I'm wasting my money on Exxon Elite and bottle of Avblend every 25 hours, but at least I feel good about it.   

[Dream to fly]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:58 AM, jetdriven said:

 A lot of people of had to redo their engine sometimes very soon after overhaul because of reground lifters. And the new lifters are no guarantee that Spalling doesn’t occur very soon again either. However the new Lycoming carbide lifters appear to be immune to this. 

This is from my friends 600 SMOh engine. 

I'm glad somebody posted what goes wrong.   I am assuming Lycoming takes no responsibility that the metal was soft or they got the hardness wrong during the manufacturing process.  That issue being beaten to death leads me to a question.  WHO manufactures a quality camshaft that can fit our engines that prevents this and fixes the low performance numbers associated with the stock grinds.

[N6758N]

12 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

I'm glad somebody posted what goes wrong.   I am assuming Lycoming takes no responsibility that the metal was soft or they got the hardness wrong during the manufacturing process.  That issue being beaten to death leads me to a question.  WHO manufactures a quality camshaft that can fit our engines that prevents this and fixes the low performance numbers associated with the stock grinds.

No one. You're never going to be able to put a 'performance' cam in a certified engine...

[Dream to fly]

27 minutes ago, N6758N said:

No one. You're never going to be able to put a 'performance' cam in a certified engine...

Well they claim man never went to the moon either.  I'd be interested in seeing who would be interested in one.  At some point the monopoly on engines needs to break.  I understand that there is liability in everything we as pilots do.  At some point common sense will prevail just like when semi trucks were being modified.  It finally turned to the owner being responsible.  If you mod your engine your warranty is void and you assume all liability.

[bonal]

6 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Well they claim man never went to the moon either.  I'd be interested in seeing who would be interested in one.  At some point the monopoly on engines needs to break.  I understand that there is liability in everything we as pilots do.  At some point common sense will prevail just like when semi trucks were being modified.  It finally turned to the owner being responsible.  If you mod your engine your warranty is void and you assume all liability.

I like the idea of being able to improve on production engines no motor head is worth his sand if he hasn't introduced some performance mods to the vehicles they have owned. But really don't think will ever apply to our certified engines all one has to do is look at how hand tied we are when it comes to avionics. If you were to modify your engine and assume owner liability I'm sure your insurer would be taking a great interest in what was going into your engines. And sadly GA is on the decline so not what I would call a great new market for a manufacture to invest mucho dollars into product development especially when you factor in product liability.  But certainly is I nice thought 

[Dream to fly]

43 minutes ago, bonal said:

I like the idea of being able to improve on production engines no motor head is worth his sand if he hasn't introduced some performance mods to the vehicles they have owned. But really don't think will ever apply to our certified engines all one has to do is look at how hand tied we are when it comes to avionics. If you were to modify your engine and assume owner liability I'm sure your insurer would be taking a great interest in what was going into your engines. And sadly GA is on the decline so not what I would call a great new market for a manufacture to invest mucho dollars into product development especially when you factor in product liability.  But certainly is I nice thought 

Sometimes its easier for asking forgiveness than permission.   I keep thinking if we just break down some doors G.A will move forward more quickly.  I am not up for the government debate about how they have helped and there are great things coming.     The government got too involved in the G.A. world along time ago and now technology is showing the inability of the government to keep up.  they need to step aside worry about the commercial side  and let the rest roll.  Let the buyers/owners decide.  Competition breeds better business and its time to open the playing field.  Honda made cars, now planes Yamaha made instruments they build some of the best high revving engines,  Its time.  Ok I'll get off the soap box.

[bonal]

I guess that's what the experimental category is all about.

[Dream to fly]

I guess that's what the experimental category is all about.

I'm not disputing it and I agree. But I haven't found a M20 equivalent in the experimental world

 

 

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Wouldn't a 25+ year old plane be experimental? Shouldn't a common sense rule say after so many years go for it create a badass plane? No because then money is lost on new sales. Imagine if certified jets became experimental I'd be all over that. Put in what you want and go. But then you'll have someone say what if they crash then kill people. Well so can a retired person driving RVs as heavy and long as a semi and no medical or license or training

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dream to fly said:

Sometimes its easier for asking forgiveness than permission.   I keep thinking if we just break down some doors G.A will move forward more quickly.  I am not up for the government debate about how they have helped and there are great things coming.     The government got too involved in the G.A. world along time ago and now technology is showing the inability of the government to keep up.  they need to step aside worry about the commercial side  and let the rest roll.  Let the buyers/owners decide.  Competition breeds better business and its time to open the playing field.  Honda made cars, now planes Yamaha made instruments they build some of the best high revving engines,  Its time.  Ok I'll get off the soap box.

I’m not so sure you can entirely blame government.  The US legal system bears a lot of the responsibility for holding back development as well.

Clarence

[Dream to fly]

I’m not so sure you can entirely blame government.  The US legal system bears a lot of the responsibility for holding back development as well.
Clarence

I'm not trying to "blame". There are alot of meddling hands that have caused the issue. I wish everyone would just stop with the rules. Just stop and let it play out. No pilot I know is going to put inferior parts or cut corners when their ass is in the seat. Icon is a perfect example. The latest pilot accident was his hot dog manuvers at low altitude and now the company has to deal with it. My question is why. You buy a truck get it stuck in the mud or ingest water into the intake good luck going back on the manufacturer. So why do we allow it in the GA world?


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[Guest]

When your truck drowns in a lake and you attempt to sue the manufacturer you get laughed at.  In aviation it’s the norm to sue and win for the stupidest reasons.

Clarence

[Yetti]

BMW has some really good boxer motorcycle engines.  One even has dual spark plugs.  Improving on a 1950s design is not start of the path I would take.

[gitmo234]

This conversation messed with my head. Last night I had a dream she was ready for pick up. I hopped in left seat and someone more experienced (but I dont know who) was in right seat. She was parked right behind another airplane and this dude starts it up full throttle and just lets it run at max RPM and I was yelling at him. Then he grabs it and starts taxiing around hits the other airplane and wrecks the the wing of mine and the tail of the other. Then the mechanic wants me to taxi thru his hangar, which is full.  I spent the rest of the time in the dream either giving up thinking "oh god, this is fucked now" or yelling at people. Either to clear out the hangar or for doing the dumb shit like hitting an a parked airplane. 

[N6758N]

12 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

 No pilot I know is going to put inferior parts or cut corners when their ass is in the seat. 
 

You don't know enough pilots yet, those guys are out there, trust me.

[bob865]

11 hours ago, Yetti said:

BMW has some really good boxer motorcycle engines.

BMW started out making airplane engines.  They quit around the 1940's for some reason though. 

But a fun fact if you didn't know, the BMW logo is a spinning propeller.  White for the prop and blue for the sky behind.

[N201MKTurbo]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:26 PM, cnoe said:

 

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We have some parts at work that are highly loaded. We had them coated with DLC (the black stuff) and then coated with tungsten disulphide (Dicronite) The process is amazing 4 times more slippery then Teflon. Finger prints won't even stick to it. The DLC (diamond like carbon) is amazingly tough.

[FloridaMan]

These were my bearings