Strip & Seal Fuel Tanks

[anthonydesmet]

On 11/16/2017 at 7:45 PM, DonMuncy said:

I have not had a reseal, but have kept up with who does them and how it is done. For a patch on a leak, I think an individual A & P could do it. For a complete strip and reseal, I don't think there is any way someone without a system for semi-automatic stripping could come close to matching what the "pros" do, unless they are working at unbelievably low hourly rates. If someone told me they could do it for the same price as the big guys, I would sure want to check their references from 10 years back.   

Concur with Don.  I also priced the big 3 and went with Edison at WetWingologists after meeting him and couldn’t be happier with the process.  Here is a link from D Max walking through tank inspection and repair from minor to major strip and reseal.  This maybe something you and your mech can walk through to decide if you need a complete strip and reseal or bide some time until you can get in with one of the majors.  Or maybe have D Max look at them.

http://www.donmaxwell.com/publications/MAPA_TEXT/_overlay/Fuel Tank Repair_How We Fix Them 2-05.htm

A personal note  -  my mech and I did a couple patches over the years until I got tired of not being able to top off after each flight and the cabin smell.  It feels like a nice luxury once you get them done to to land, top off and throw it in the hanger knowing your ready to next flight.....

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Dreaded bladders? Dreaded bladders? I just received the kit from Griggs to extend my O&N bladders (installed 1997) to 64 gallons. (@kpaul Each 5 gallon bladder is labeled 2.5 pounds.) We'll be doing the install as well as the CiES level sensors right after Thanksgiving. I expect it to take a week. In my hangar while JPI is updating the EDM for the CiES.

My point: the bladders will likely outlast the pilot and the airframe. Bladders can be installed by many shops, near home, in less time that reseal, and all in, including travel, price competitive.  

For those who want bladders, they don’t exist for all models so repair or strip and seal are the only option.

Clarence

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

For those who want bladders, they don’t exist for all models so repair or strip and seal are the only option.

Clarence

That's true. STC covers all the vintage and Js... I'm not sure about Ks. @M20Doc, I suppose the reason is that those were the only models existing when the STC was obtained. I don't know if there would be enough market to justify extending the STC to later models... of course the long bodies have greater capacity, I don't know how much work that would be to certify.

[Aron Peterson]

I went with Paul because I liked his process better than the folks in Florida. It seemed to me like the folks in Florida use more of a chisel process and Paul uses a more of a chemical process with less harm to the interior of the fuel tank.


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[carusoam]

@ilovecornfields,

when you get a chance, It would be helpful if you add some data to your avatar...

helpful for me, at least...  

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

On 11/17/2017 at 9:44 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Dreaded bladders? Dreaded bladders? I just received the kit from Griggs to extend my O&N bladders (installed 1997) to 64 gallons. (@kpaul Each 5 gallon bladder is labeled 2.5 pounds.) We'll be doing the install as well as the CiES level sensors right after Thanksgiving. I expect it to take a week. In my hangar while JPI is updating the EDM for the CiES.

My point: the bladders will likely outlast the pilot and the airframe. Bladders can be installed by many shops, near home, in less time that reseal, and all in, including travel, price competitive.  

Bob, I do hope you realize that I was being utterly facetious.  It was the 20 year old bladders that sold me my airplane.  Had it been a 20 year old reseal I would not have been as sanguine about it.

[Mooneycrazy]

Thanks everyone....I talked with Don Maxwell as well...He recommends Paul in MN too...They offer to do a repair but not a full strip n seal....I agree with most on here....Flying is never too far when you enjoy flying...

[Bob_Belville]

On 11/17/2017 at 9:44 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Dreaded bladders? Dreaded bladders? I just received the kit from Griggs to extend my O&N bladders (installed 1997) to 64 gallons. (@kpaul Each 5 gallon bladder is labeled 2.5 pounds.) We'll be doing the install as well as the CiES level sensors right after Thanksgiving. I expect it to take a week. In my hangar while JPI is updating the EDM for the CiES.

My point: the bladders will likely outlast the pilot and the airframe. Bladders can be installed by many shops, near home, in less time that reseal, and all in, including travel, price competitive.  

I'm piggy backing on this thread to document my add on bladders which we're installing this week. This pics show using the boost pump to drain the tanks as recently discussed. There's a few pics of the top of the existing bladders, which are 20 years old and look fine, and the initial taping in the next compartment outboard to create a new access panel to install the new cell. We've already removed the overflow tube from the bottom of the wing. It will get reinstalled on the high side of the new cell. Lynn Mace, @AGL Aviationis doing the install of the Griggs kit.

[jetdriven]

WHats the cost of the add on bladder kit and how many hours labor to install? Weight penalty? Fuel capacity increase?

[N6758N]

On 12/1/2017 at 1:00 PM, jetdriven said:

WHats the cost of the add on bladder kit and how many hours labor to install? Weight penalty? Fuel capacity increase?

I think the kit is like $3,400. I would figure around 10 hours labor to install. Gets you an extra 10 gallons total.

[steingar]

I want.

[Bob_Belville]

4 hours ago, jetdriven said:

WHats the cost of the add on bladder kit and how many hours labor to install? Weight penalty? Fuel capacity increase?

Byron, the kit is $3250. Griggs' installed price is $4700 which implies $1450 labor. I suppose I will save about half that. Plus the cost of making two trips to Griggs shop in PA to deliverr and pick up the plane.

Plus we're installing new CiES fuel level sensors and the EDM 930 is on the way to JPI to convert it to digital. 

New capacity is 66.5 gallons total, 64 gallons usable. I've forgotten the weight, it's 10-15 pounds. (The cells weight 2.5 pounds each but there's fittings, new access panels, and some sheet metal to keep the cell away from the aileron push pull rods.)

[jetdriven]

how did you cut that hole

 

[LANCECASPER]

How about starting another thread on Fuel Bladders Add On?

[nels]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:16 PM, ilovecornfields said:

 

From the photos it appears your leaks are all from the inspection covers. Why wouldn't you just remove these and reseal the joints?

[mike_elliott]

16 minutes ago, nels said:

From the photos it appears your leaks are all from the inspection covers. Why wouldn't you just remove these and reseal the joints?

I think you will find the leak along the spar. If you remove the inspection panels, you will see it.  This is typically where they start leaking per Paul Beck. Send him the photo's he will give you good advice. Sealing an inspection panel wont do a thing for you. paul@weeepnomorellc.com

 

[ilovecornfields]

4 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

I think you will find the leak along the spar. If you remove the inspection panels, you will see it.  This is typically where they start leaking per Paul Beck. Send him the photo's he will give you good advice. Sealing an inspection panel wont do a thing for you. paul@weeepnomorellc.com

 

You are correct. The local mechanic recommended sealing the panels. I sent the pictures to Greg at Advanced Aircraft in Troutdale and he said no way that will fix it. Flew it up there and he found the leak the same day, patched it and I was flying again a few days later. It’s been bone dry since then with no fuel smell!

[Bob_Belville]

On 12/1/2017 at 8:34 PM, jetdriven said:

how did you cut that hole

 

Carefully.  

Lynn did it. He used a hole saw for the radii, slightly undersized, to get close to his construction line then air tool cut off wheels and sanding drums. The duct tape is to keep aluminum filings out of the access panel to the adjacent compartment that he'd removed and out of the fuel cap.

I sure hope he measured twice before he cut. That hole needs to line up with the handle molded into the cell that holds the top of the cell up.

[Greg Ellis]

About 5 years ago, I got tired of patches failing over an over again.  Decided to take my plane to Paul Beck at Weep No More.  5 years now, leak free.  These photos show the before and after.  The before photos look like people were trying to work on the tank blind!!!  But you can see how Paul gets every last little bit of old sealant off and then does a superb job with the new seals.  I recommend him highly.  There is not a finer person on the mechanical side of our airplanes than Paul Beck.

[Barzook]

New member here! Purchased a M20J a few months back. The tanks a leaking a little bit so I'm planning on having them both fully stripped and resealed. I would like to know if there's any gasket or other parts I should buy prior? Like wing root gaskets for example. Thanks!

[Ragsf15e]

38 minutes ago, Barzook said:

New member here! Purchased a M20J a few months back. The tanks a leaking a little bit so I'm planning on having them both fully stripped and resealed. I would like to know if there's any gasket or other parts I should buy prior? Like wing root gaskets for example. Thanks!

Depending on where you’re having it done (or doing it yourself), that may be part of the job.  There’s a gasket on both sides of the interior under pilot/passenger knee area.  If it’s all open and the experts are doing it, I’d definitely change that.  However, it can be done outside of a full tank reseal.

Another consideration is for new or overhauled level senders since it’s all open.  Depending on your fuel gages, CIES makes far superior fuel level sensors than our original.  However, if you keep the originals, overhauling them is also an option.