Monroy tanks

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Those numbers make my 400 look like a fuel miser!

Clarence

20 gal / hr is in line with everything I remember reading about Bravos. They don't do LOP very well, with limited exceptions (kind of like C models, but with eye-watering fuel burn).

[MIm20c]

16 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Those numbers make my 400 look like a fuel miser!

Clarence

Probably around 1000 nm. I’d probably burn 70 gals. Just curious what amount of fuel you’d budget for a no winds trip like that. Honestly curious. 

[carusoam]

There is value in the TC'd engine on those trips...

Air resistance gets minimized with altitude...

Power gets maintained with the TC...

Put a pair of TNs on the 400, Expect 22 - 28 gph...?

Similar To Having two IO360s churning out 75% of full power.

Max speed, not minimum cost...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, anthonydesmet said:

@LANCECASPER @Piloto can Edison do the long range tank mod? I’m starting a new position with Lockheed Martin and moving to Orlando.  My current Virginia Beach to Boston trip to visit my son just became Orlando to Boston so looking at options.  One of which was moving to a Bravo/faster/factory 89+ gal Mooney.....my wife’s suggestion God bless her......but I still like my 185kts Trophy...

From what I hear, Edison worked for Jose Monroy for years. He has probably installed more Monroy tanks than anyone.

http://www.wetwingologistseast.com/Services-Warranty.html

[Bravoman]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

20 gal / hr is in line with everything I remember reading about Bravos. They don't do LOP very well, with limited exceptions (kind of like C models, but with eye-watering fuel burn).

I would agree with all that. It’s a wonderful machine. When people say you don’t need turbocharging on the east coast I respectfully disagree. You may not need it but it’s easy to get used to. It is a game changer when you can climb above the clouds and wx  and cruise in the clear cool sky at high speed.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Probably around 1000 nm. I’d probably burn 70 gals. Just curious what amount of fuel you’d budget for a no winds trip like that. Honestly curious. 

I’ve done Florida to home, a straight line distance of 950 NM in to wind in 5:30 start to stop and used 100 gallons.  Biggest difference is I was also 275 pounds under gross weight.

This was before the EDM install so l wasn’t as efficient as I could’ve been.

Clarence

[anthonydesmet]

8 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

From what I hear, Edison worked for Jose Monroy for years. He has probably installed more Monroy tanks than anyone.

http://www.wetwingologistseast.com/Services-Warranty.html

Edison did my wing reseal about a year ago.  Awesome service and couldn’t be happier that’s why I was asking if he did the long range tanks.  Well this makes my decision a little easier....the thought of going to a Bravo is a nice one but the reality of continuing to fly an airframe I’m intimately familiar with and having spent a handful of years perfecting makes it seems more practical to do the long range tanks.

[PTK]

My apologies in advance for this slightly off topic question. It seems to me that, at least in the pictures of strip/reseals that I have seen, old sealant is cleaned out and new sealant is brushed on the surface at the seams. Isn't it important to sandwich sealant in between overlapping seams? Wouldn't that be more leak proof? Which is only possible to do when tanks are assembled initially at the factory when the plane is built? Because this can't be done is a strip/reseal and brush on new sealant just a compromise because there's no other option? Just curious.

[anthonydesmet]

6 hours ago, Bravoman said:

I would agree with all that. It’s a wonderful machine. When people say you don’t need turbocharging on the east coast I respectfully disagree. You may not need it but it’s easy to get used to. It is a game changer when you can climb above the clouds and wx  and cruise in the clear cool sky at high speed.

Exactly!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PTK said:

My apologies in advance for this slightly off topic question. It seems to me that, at least in the pictures of strip/reseals that I have seen, old sealant is cleaned out and new sealant is brushed on the surface at the seams. Isn't it important to sandwich sealant in between overlapping seams? Wouldn't that be more leak proof? Which is only possible to do when tanks are assembled initially at the gactory when the plane is built? 

While that method would seem superior, the paint on method is the norm, along with the leaks which come afterward.

Clarence

[Danb]

12 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Those numbers make my 400 look like a fuel miser!

Clarence

Good for you Clarence, 18 gph 200 knots I guess the 400 does 200 on 10 gph, on maybe 200 is your pipe dream 

[Danb]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I’ve done Florida to home, a straight line distance of 950 NM in to wind in 5:30 start to stop and used 100 gallons.  Biggest difference is I was also 275 pounds under gross weight.

This was before the EDM install so l wasn’t as efficient as I could’ve been.

Clarence

So 950 in 5:30. Say 173 knots really I'd brag about that, when you pair it to 4:30 you can start comparing that sweet P model to Long bodies, really. 

[Seth]

I have the Monry tanks on my Missile and it’s a dream.  I can go over 1000 statue miles in 5 hours with VFR reserve and high speed cruise or close to 1500 miles in 10 hours at best range cruise.

I usually break my flights up to shorter legs anyway, but having the option is huge.

Orlando back to Maryland direct.

Maryland to Minneapolis and Minneapolis to Maryland direct.

the MD to Minneapolis flight was over 5 hours with headwinds.  A stop for fuel would have easily added at least 30 min, probably an hour - lot of time that day.

-Seth

Edited November 5, 2017 by Seth

[Guest]

I guess I'll have to start adding smiley faces to my posting for the people humour seems to elude.  My post about fuel miser was in response to my fuel burn of 18-20 GPH compared to a Bravo fuel burn of 18-20.  We all know Comanches burn a ton of fuel.

For comparable fuel burn I'm producing 70% of 400 HP which is more HP than 100% of 270 for a Bravo engine, turbos do love fuel.

I gave an honest answer to a poster who asked about a long distance trip, they are what they are, I've nothing to hide or embellish.

While not quite 200KTAS, 199 is pretty close.

Although not as aerodynamically clean as a Mooney, my Comanche has many other great attributes, a real full sized cabin, better payload, leak free fuel tanks, fuel bladders from birth, corrosion free wing spars, corrosion free steel cage, oh yeah it doesn't have one, ability to go to grass fields that no Mooney long body ever visits, all this in a 50 year old airframe.

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by M20Doc

[Aron Peterson]

I guess I'll have to start adding smiley faces to my posting for the people humour seems to elude.  My post about fuel miser was in response to my fuel burn of 18-20 GPH compared to a Bravo fuel burn of 18-20.  We all know Comanches burn a ton of fuel.
For comparable fuel burn I'm producing 70% of 400 HP which is more HP than 100% of 270 for a Bravo engine, turbos do love fuel.
I gave an honest answer to a poster who asked about a long distance trip, they are what they are, I've nothing to hide or embellish.
While not quite 200KTAS, 199 is pretty close.
Although not as aerodynamically clean as a Mooney, my Comanche has many other great attributes, a real full sized cabin, better payload, leak free fuel tanks, fuel bladders from birth, corrosion free wing spars, corrosion free steel cage, oh yeah it doesn't have one, ability to go to grass fields that no Mooney long body ever visits, all this in a 50 year old airframe.
 

Well said


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Danb]

M20Doc I love you really, you bring a lot of great foresight and offer valuable help to the Mooney guys and gals. But when comparing brands you've got to remember it's still a Mooney sight. I'm glad you believe the P is a better plane which is why I assume you purchased it, most of us purchased what we felt was best. Every time a guy states how well his ship performed alone comes a pix of a pretty chrome eight cylinder machine, come on dude..

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

M20Doc I love you really, you bring a lot of great foresight and offer valuable help to the Mooney guys and gals. But when comparing brands you've got to remember it's still a Mooney sight. I'm glad you believe the P is a better plane which is why I assume you purchased it, most of us purchased what we felt was best. Every time a guy states how well his ship performed alone comes a pix of a pretty chrome eight cylinder machine, come on dude..

Hi Dan, Clarence is mostly kidding - trying to get under our skin.

• His PA24-400 was such a great airplane that Piper built about of 50 of them per year for their 3 year production run. (400 production ended when Mooney introduced their F model.)
• We can humor his good-natured poking in exchange for his insights on the care and feeding of our M20s.
• Now, if he gets going on the supposed merits on the flying Clorox jugs he also services that's another matter. In that case I he's surely defending his bread and butter and his objectivity can not be assumed.

[Danb]

Bob humor works both ways..

Dan

[Bob_Belville]

7 minutes ago, Danb said:

Bob humor works both ways..

Dan

Yup. and I hope my post was at least as funny as his.

[Danb]

Sure was. How's it goin Bob, any good trips planned

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, Danb said:

M20Doc I love you really, you bring a lot of great foresight and offer valuable help to the Mooney guys and gals. But when comparing brands you've got to remember it's still a Mooney sight. I'm glad you believe the P is a better plane which is why I assume you purchased it, most of us purchased what we felt was best. Every time a guy states how well his ship performed alone comes a pix of a pretty chrome eight cylinder machine, come on dude..

Meh - he's good natured about it - so I don't mind.  The PA24-400 is definitely a very interesting airplane.  It has its role on here, since he is good natured about it.  I certainly enjoy pictures of a lovely 8 cylinder engine more than a certain other poster on here who burns my eyes every time he posts an extreme overweight woman.

For sure if he was actually annoying about it, then it would be borish, and anyway, yeah he is playing the role of a bore, but its fun.  I enjoy it - in an eye rolling way.

Its a shame that piper gave up their superb commanche line so long ago in favor of the cherokee/seneca line. And separately its a shame that the best part of the line, which is the engine, never made it big.  Can you imagine an 8 cylinder in a sleeker mooney?  I know the balance would probably be impossible to fix, but what if it could?  It would be a 215-220knot normally aspirate airplane, or 250+ turbo charged up high.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Hi Dan, Clarence is mostly kidding - trying to get under our skin.

• His PA24-400 was such a great airplane that Piper built about of 50 of them per year for their 3 year production run. (400 production ended when Mooney introduced their F model.)
• We can humor his good-natured poking in exchange for his insights on the care and feeding of our M20s.
• Now, if he gets going on the supposed merits on the flying Clorox jugs he also services that's another matter. In that case I he's surely defending his bread and butter and his objectivity can not be assumed.

I’m not trying to get under anyone’s skin, I can take a good ribbing as well as I can give one.  I only have one person on my blocked list and may reverse that decision.

I’m merely suggesting that no one airframe is perfect, they all have issues in one way or another.  We are all entitled to our opinions as to which airframe is best and will buy the one which suites our mission.

For the Comanche, Piper built around 5000 singles of about 6 models and 2000 twins.  There were 148 Comanche 400’s built in 1964, some were marketed as 1965 models because they did not sell as well as Piper hoped.

I spend a lot of time here(too much my wife says) trying provide correct information, answering private emails helping members who ask, supplying maintenance manuals to those who are in need.  I do genuinely enjoy our little group and doing what I can to help, knowing full well that there is no business gain for my MSC in Canada.

Clarence

 

[kris_adams]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:34 AM, M20Doc said:

I’ve done Florida to home, a straight line distance of 950 NM in to wind in 5:30 start to stop and used 100 gallons.  Biggest difference is I was also 275 pounds under gross weight.

This was before the EDM install so l wasn’t as efficient as I could’ve been.

Clarence

Any chance you flew out of Kississimee a bunch of years ago in super heavy rain?  I was behind a 400 that went out...think it landed in Indiana or somewhere.  I can't remember.  Just didn't think there were that many 400s out there (no clue really how many there are). (I guess 148 based on re-reading post above)

-Kris

[kpaul]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I spend a lot of time here(too much my wife says) trying provide correct information, answering private emails helping members who ask, supplying maintenance manuals to those who are in need.  I do genuinely enjoy our little group and doing what I can to help, knowing full well that there is no business gain for my MSC in Canada.

I cant speak for everyone, but your maintenance insights are a great help and truly appreciated by myself.  I for one was the recipient of a maintenance manual from you and your wife - Thank You!   

[M016576]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:10 AM, Seth said:

I have the Monry tanks on my Missile and it’s a dream.  I can go over 1000 statue miles in 5 hours with VFR reserve and high speed cruise or close to 1500 miles in 10 hours at best range cruise.

I usually break my flights up to shorter legs anyway, but having the option is huge.

Orlando back to Maryland direct.

Maryland to Minneapolis and Minneapolis to Maryland direct.

the MD to Minneapolis flight was over 5 hours with headwinds.  A stop for fuel would have easily added at least 30 min, probably an hour - lot of time that day.

-Seth

Same!  

 

Cant beat a Missile for overall speed and economy!