Promo: Santa Fe Aero Aspen Install

[mooniac58]

I was just down at my shop looking over my plane and the owner told me that I could post this offer on the site for any interested Mooney owners.  Basically Aspen is currently offering $1000 in rebates if you buy a PFD1000/MFD500 combo and Pat Horgan (owner of SAF Aero) said that he would give an additional $500 on these two units intsalled bringing the total discount to $1500.

If you are interested just pop over to their site at http://www.santafeaero.com/ 

I can confirm that their quality of workmanship is top-notch and their shop is ultra-organized and professional.  You can see pictures of the job they did for me below

[John Pleisse]

What a well thought out, well planned and perfectly executed panel. Absolutely exquisite. My 201 is in for the dual AHRS 2000 system right now. I didn't have cash left over to clean up the panel. Maybe next year. And I will certainly use your photos as the benchmark. Nice job....real nice.

[kris_adams]

WOW!  That's all I can say.  Amazing work.

[peter]

SAF Aero also did my install.  I'm actually a little jealous of Craig's panel - he has a very nice airplane!

[thinwing]

nice panel...just snt you a pm...kp couch

[fantom]

My bank account can't handle this....please stop posting pictures ;-)

[bd32322]

thats the best panel I have seen - i like how uncluttered and clean it is...

[bd32322]

mooniac - do you know if you saved any weight after you got rid of your steam gauges - if so how much did you save?

thanks

[dcrogers11]

Can I just live vicariously through you guys!  What a super nice panel.  Cleanest set up I've seen.

[PTK]

Did you consider the G500 in your decision making process?  

[mooniac58]

Quote: allsmiles

Did you consider the G500 in your decision making process?  

 I did. In fact, before I went  to my shop I was 100% sold on having a G500.  Once you start looking at the two there is no comparison in my opinion.  Let me give you the hit list I came up with:

- Aspen with a PFD/MFD (2 screens) is completely redundent.  Each display has its own ADHARS unit (this is the brain of your glass system that knows your pitch, roll, wind computer, etc, etc).  If your PFD ADHARS or anything in that system fails you just press the REV button and your are back online in a fully isolated system.  With a G500 if your ADHARS unit dies your whole glass panel just died.

- Due to the above item, you can remove the vaccuum from your aircraft if your aircraft type certificate allows for this (Mooney does). 

- With Aspen you only need a backup AI (no altimter or airspeed required).  In my case, this was the only reason I could move my engine computer into the left pilots panel.

- Aspen lets you do a lot more at the same time.  Each screen can split into 1, 2 or 3 panels letting you set each one to what you want.  G500 requires you to look at one thing at a time.  With a full 3 screen system I have be looking at 8 things at once if I choose to.  With G500 3 is the max.

- Battery backups.  The Aspens each have 30 minute battery backups (that really last about 50 minutes in my experience) plus I have the optional 2 hour battery on my MFD. 

- GPS Backup - in the event of a primary GPS failure (ie your 530 or 430) your Aspen has a built in GPS that will take over so you can complete your flight without a hitch.  This saves you a lot of $$ if you would normally have two GPS units to cover this kind of failure

- Costs of add ons and upgrades.  Aspen does not charge you an arm and leg  for everything.  Geo approach plates are 1/3 the cost of Garmin, SVT is $3000 compared to $5000, and most updates Aspen offers are free of charge.  XM weather was about half the cost of the Garmin solution.

- Great company.  Aspen support is second to no one.  If you have a problem with your unit a new one is on your shops front door the next morning, no problem.

- Data handling.  If your G500 geo plates expire (you failed to update them in their 28 day cycle) you will not be able to load them.  With Aspens, you can still use them but get a warning they are expired.

The only two things I could find better on the G500 when I looked at the two side by side was:

- XM Radio - the Garmin XM receiver and G500 will let you play XM radio stations into your audio panel

- Aestetics.  I really do like the look of the two wider (but shorter) screens.  However, now that I have the 3 Aspen screens I like it much better overall, and I have much more power and flexibility than I would ever have with a G500.

Also note that while the G500 seems cheaper than three Aspen screens (the Evolution 2500 package) - at the end of the day you will come out about even.  This is because the G500 is a very labor intensive install (about 100-120 hours in a Mooney).  Aspens are significantly less, especially if you forgo the panel re-cut and just drop them in your old 6-pack holes.

 

[mooniac58]

Quote: bd32322

mooniac - do you know if you saved any weight after you got rid of your steam gauges - if so how much did you save?

thanks

 I added a bunch of weight actually and I am not 100% sure this is not just the scales being off at the shop (or the last scales I was weighed on being off).

According to my shop I gained 50lbs, which makes no sense to me.  The vaccuum system was removed, the old ADF antanae was removed, the Aspen screens are very light and replaced 6 steam gauges, the panel is essentially the same.  We added the Stec-55 autopilot and its servos, we added the TAS-600 Avidyne traffic system and the XM Weather module in the tail, but it would be hard to imagine all the weight came from just that.

At some point down the road I plan on doing another weigh in to see if I get a different result.  Basically my aircraft now weights about 100lbs more than it did when it left the factory.  That seems hard to believe with a panel that clean.  Plus I have upgrade to the Plane Power lightweight alternator and Skytech lightweight starter.  Go figure!

[bd32322]

mooniac - great choice on the aspens - I just like the company's attitude to their product development and resonable prices - along with the other points you mentioned. The 50lb weight gain does seem bogus - I would have expected you to save some weight - but I have no experience in this - hence I was asking around. I eventually want to switch to the aspens after I save enough for a clean redesign of the panel - not going to do it piecemeal. Also let the technology settle down a bit (e.g. UAT, ADSB etc)

[PTK]

Quote: mooniac58

 I did. In fact, before I went  to my shop I was 100% sold on having a G500.  Once you start looking at the two there is no comparison in my opinion.  Let me give you the hit list I came up with:

- Aspen with a PFD/MFD (2 screens) is completely redundent.  Each display has its own ADHARS unit (this is the brain of your glass system that knows your pitch, roll, wind computer, etc, etc).  If your PFD ADHARS or anything in that system fails you just press the REV button and your are back online in a fully isolated system.  With a G500 if your ADHARS unit dies your whole glass panel just died.

- Due to the above item, you can remove the vaccuum from your aircraft if your aircraft type certificate allows for this (Mooney does). 

- With Aspen you only need a backup AI (no altimter or airspeed required).  In my case, this was the only reason I could move my engine computer into the left pilots panel.

- Aspen lets you do a lot more at the same time.  Each screen can split into 1, 2 or 3 panels letting you set each one to what you want.  G500 requires you to look at one thing at a time.  With a full 3 screen system I have be looking at 8 things at once if I choose to.  With G500 3 is the max.

- Battery backups.  The Aspens each have 30 minute battery backups (that really last about 50 minutes in my experience) plus I have the optional 2 hour battery on my MFD. 

- GPS Backup - in the event of a primary GPS failure (ie your 530 or 430) your Aspen has a built in GPS that will take over so you can complete your flight without a hitch.  This saves you a lot of $$ if you would normally have two GPS units to cover this kind of failure

- Costs of add ons and upgrades.  Aspen does not charge you an arm and leg  for everything.  Geo approach plates are 1/3 the cost of Garmin, SVT is $3000 compared to $5000, and most updates Aspen offers are free of charge.  XM weather was about half the cost of the Garmin solution.

- Great company.  Aspen support is second to no one.  If you have a problem with your unit a new one is on your shops front door the next morning, no problem.

- Data handling.  If your G500 geo plates expire (you failed to update them in their 28 day cycle) you will not be able to load them.  With Aspens, you can still use them but get a warning they are expired.

The only two things I could find better on the G500 when I looked at the two side by side was:

- XM Radio - the Garmin XM receiver and G500 will let you play XM radio stations into your audio panel

- Aestetics.  I really do like the look of the two wider (but shorter) screens.  However, now that I have the 3 Aspen screens I like it much better overall, and I have much more power and flexibility than I would ever have with a G500.

Also note that while the G500 seems cheaper than three Aspen screens (the Evolution 2500 package) - at the end of the day you will come out about even.  This is because the G500 is a very labor intensive install (about 100-120 hours in a Mooney).  Aspens are significantly less, especially if you forgo the panel re-cut and just drop them in your old 6-pack holes.

 

[PTK]

Quote: mooniac58

 I did. In fact, before I went  to my shop I was 100% sold on having a G500.  Once you start looking at the two there is no comparison in my opinion.  Let me give you the hit list I came up with:

- Aspen with a PFD/MFD (2 screens) is completely redundent.  Each display has its own ADHARS unit (this is the brain of your glass system that knows your pitch, roll, wind computer, etc, etc).  If your PFD ADHARS or anything in that system fails you just press the REV button and your are back online in a fully isolated system.  With a G500 if your ADHARS unit dies your whole glass panel just died.

- Due to the above item, you can remove the vaccuum from your aircraft if your aircraft type certificate allows for this (Mooney does). 

- With Aspen you only need a backup AI (no altimter or airspeed required).  In my case, this was the only reason I could move my engine computer into the left pilots panel.

- Aspen lets you do a lot more at the same time.  Each screen can split into 1, 2 or 3 panels letting you set each one to what you want.  G500 requires you to look at one thing at a time.  With a full 3 screen system I have be looking at 8 things at once if I choose to.  With G500 3 is the max.

- Battery backups.  The Aspens each have 30 minute battery backups (that really last about 50 minutes in my experience) plus I have the optional 2 hour battery on my MFD. 

- GPS Backup - in the event of a primary GPS failure (ie your 530 or 430) your Aspen has a built in GPS that will take over so you can complete your flight without a hitch.  This saves you a lot of $$ if you would normally have two GPS units to cover this kind of failure

- Costs of add ons and upgrades.  Aspen does not charge you an arm and leg  for everything.  Geo approach plates are 1/3 the cost of Garmin, SVT is $3000 compared to $5000, and most updates Aspen offers are free of charge.  XM weather was about half the cost of the Garmin solution.

- Great company.  Aspen support is second to no one.  If you have a problem with your unit a new one is on your shops front door the next morning, no problem.

- Data handling.  If your G500 geo plates expire (you failed to update them in their 28 day cycle) you will not be able to load them.  With Aspens, you can still use them but get a warning they are expired.

The only two things I could find better on the G500 when I looked at the two side by side was:

- XM Radio - the Garmin XM receiver and G500 will let you play XM radio stations into your audio panel

- Aestetics.  I really do like the look of the two wider (but shorter) screens.  However, now that I have the 3 Aspen screens I like it much better overall, and I have much more power and flexibility than I would ever have with a G500.

Also note that while the G500 seems cheaper than three Aspen screens (the Evolution 2500 package) - at the end of the day you will come out about even.  This is because the G500 is a very labor intensive install (about 100-120 hours in a Mooney).  Aspens are significantly less, especially if you forgo the panel re-cut and just drop them in your old 6-pack holes.

 

[fantom]

Thanks for the excellent write-up Craig. Your factual analysis with specific reasoning and sound logic is something we can all learn from.

I also like the G500 aesthetics, and give weight to how much Parker liked his unit. But dealing with robber baron Garmin, who charge as much as the traffic will bear for everything, and don't think twice about obsolescing their last offering with no reasonable upgrade potential, is foolhardy, IMO. Peter and Aspen have proved extremely pilot customer friendly from all reports, and their technical innovations have made the bigger guys go back to the drawing board.

You have the best looking and most functional Mooney retrofit panel I've ever seen. Well done!

[PTK]

Quote: fantom

Thanks for the excellent write-up Craig. Your factual analysis with specific reasoning and sound logic is something we can all learn from.

I also like the G500 aesthetics, and give weight to how much Parker liked his unit. But dealing with robber baron Garmin, who charge as much as the traffic will bear for everything, and don't think twice about obsolescing their last offering with no reasonable upgrade potential, is foolhardy, IMO. Peter and Aspen have proved extremely pilot customer friendly from all reports, and their technical innovations have made the bigger guys go back to the drawing board.

You have the best looking and most functional Mooney retrofit panel I've ever seen. Well done!

[OR75]

last time I checked, Garmin was not in the non-profit category.

Why wouldn't they charge as much as the traffic can bear ?

In my view their purchase of ups a few years back (around 2003 if I can recall) was not a good thing for the cosummer down the road.   

[PTK]

Quote: OR75

last time I checked, Garmin was not in the non-profit category.

Why wouldn't they charge as much as the traffic can bear ?

In my view their purchase of ups a few years back (around 2003 if I can recall) was not a good thing for the cosummer down the road.   

[OR75]

I did not say Garmin was the culprit. I did not say they did or did not deserve to make a profit. They are in the business to make a profit and it is good for them if they do.  I am sure their marketing team understands how to market and price their products.  I am not sure I would be crying over their margin if I knew what it was. A WAAS upgrade on an old GNS430 is $3000.

Turning now to installers/shops, it is frustrating not knowing upfront what the final cost was going to be.  Also, I have not always been happy with the collateral damage done during an install (like cable mess behind the panel and broken plastic).     

 

 

[fantom]

Interesting point about installer price variations, not unlike dentist mark-ups for products like Invisaligns and teeth whiteners ;-)

[PTK]

Quote: OR75

I did not say Garmin was the culprit. I did not say they did or did not deserve to make a profit. They are in the business to make a profit and it is good for them if they do.  I am sure their marketing team understands how to market and price their products.  I am not sure I would be crying over their margin if I knew what it was. A WAAS upgrade on an old GNS430 is $3000.

Turning now to installers/shops, it is frustrating not knowing upfront what the final cost was going to be.  Also, I have not always been happy with the collateral damage done during an install (like cable mess behind the panel and broken plastic).     

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

Germin deserves to make a profit as does Aspen, Honeywel, UPS  etc etc.  As far as we in GA are concerned Garmin is the one leader who has single handedly advanced the technology to the point where we can actually afford it.  Look at, they own the GPS Nav Comm and PFD market as they own the portable market the traffic market etc.  They own GA technology, period. And THIS IS GOOD FOR US!  Shoudn't they make a profit!  

Look at Honeywell with their KSN770.  They have been "working" on it for years! For YEARS! Where is it?  Last I heard they subbed it out to India!  To India!  And look at Garmin, right here in our good ol USA !!  

I submit to you, as an example, comparing the G500 to the Aspen 2000, if the cost for these two very different harware packages are very similar than one is overpriced !  And it's not Garmin!

Don't look at Garmin as the culprit here.  The real culprits who elevate costs are the installers!  That's where the variation in cost lies in my experience!

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Well, I actually see good value in the Aspen with the GPSS being included in their PFD.

Installers ain't all culprits either.  It costs a lot of money to operate an install shop...or 99% of aviation businesses for that matter.

Don't know where you got the India intel...I was under the impression that Aspen is working on it...

[fantom]

"It's nice but unnecessary"

Just like putting a GTN 750, GMA 35 and GTX 33 in an otherwise old panel....