UPHILL BOTH WAYS

[Brian Scranton]

Naturally, 50kt headwind on our way to California...2 kt tailwind on our way back to Colorado. Can't catch a break. 

Interesting approach to KFUL on Thursday. We were headed to Anaheim for a conference (for my wife) and to ride some rides (for me and the kid). LA center gave me a pretty detailed clearance. MMM>V21>HEC>PDZ>V394>SLI>KFUL. Then I got to HEC, was pushed to SoCal Approach, and they gave me a new clearance: RV>POM>v394>AHEIM>SLI>KFUL. Then, they began vectoring me, I requested the LOC24, and nothing made sense after that. Super smokey, and ATC tells me "you're 5 miles from SEEDY (never confirmed spelling--and never found the way point--I still wonder if we was saying Seal Beach), join the LOC" and as I am searching for SEEDY, I blow past the LOC. He turns me north. Asks if I see the airport. Still super smokey. Never see the airport--though I say I think I do. He clears me for the visual and sends me to tower. They keep asking if I see the airport. I keep telling them all I see are warehouses and that I am unfamiliar with the area...man, it got tricky super quicky. Finally see the runway...and all was fine. But I was pretty bummed. 

Lesson: situational awareness trumps communication. Instead of trying to figure out what they hell he was talking about, I should have first just flown the approach I was planning. 

[Mooneymite]

You think that was complicated?

Read the thread on VFR etiquette!  Now that's complicated.  

I'm glad everything turned out well.

[Marauder]

48 minutes ago, Brian Scranton said:

Naturally, 50kt headwind on our way to California...2 kt tailwind on our way back to Colorado. Can't catch a break. 

Interesting approach to KFUL on Thursday. We were headed to Anaheim for a conference (for my wife) and to ride some rides (for me and the kid). LA center gave me a pretty detailed clearance. MMM>V21>HEC>PDZ>V394>SLI>KFUL. Then I got to HEC, was pushed to SoCal Approach, and they gave me a new clearance: RV>POM>v394>AHEIM>SLI>KFUL. Then, they began vectoring me, I requested the LOC24, and nothing made sense after that. Super smokey, and ATC tells me "you're 5 miles from SEEDY (never confirmed spelling--and never found the way point--I still wonder if we was saying Seal Beach), join the LOC" and as I am searching for SEEDY, I blow past the LOC. He turns me north. Asks if I see the airport. Still super smokey. Never see the airport--though I say I think I do. He clears me for the visual and sends me to tower. They keep asking if I see the airport. I keep telling them all I see are warehouses and that I am unfamiliar with the area...man, it got tricky super quicky. Finally see the runway...and all was fine. But I was pretty bummed. 

Lesson: situational awareness trumps communication. Instead of trying to figure out what they hell he was talking about, I should have first just flown the approach I was planning. 

A well laid out plan can go out the window as quick as you hear "62V, I have a new route for you, advise when ready to copy". As someone who was weaned on VORs, Victor airways and heck even NDB approaches, when I transitioned to IFR GPS technology in 2012, I thought I was back in kindergarten. I think those 5 letter waypoints have added a demonic influence on us single pilot IFR types. Yeah, they were always there and occasionally you needed to call them out as a compulsory waypoint -- but heck they were on the line you were flying.

I cringe when I hear the controller say they have a new routing for me. You never know what 5 letters they will come up with.

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

A well laid out plan can go out the window as quick as you hear "62V, I have a new route for you, advise when ready to copy". As someone who was weaned on VORs, Victor airways and heck even NDB approaches, when I transitioned to IFR GPS technology in 2012, I thought I was back in kindergarten. I think those 5 letter waypoints have added a demonic influence on us single pilot IFR types. Yeah, they were always there and occasionally you needed to call them out as a compulsory waypoint -- but heck they were on the line you were flying.

I cringe when I hear the controller say they have a new routing for me. You never know what 5 letters they will come up with.

I keep an ace in the hole:  being a Southern fellow, I can always tell fast-talking ATC "Ya hear how slow I talk? That's also how fast I listen. Say again that new route???"

[Brian Scranton]

TOTALLY. You guys are dead on. They were coming at me like a gatling gun. I should have told them to pump the breaks a bit--and I was pretty clear that I was "wasn't from round here" and they got the hint after I said it a few times. Plus, EVERYTHING looks the same there. It's just a bunch of white boxes (warehouses) all over the place. 

[Skates97]

53 minutes ago, Brian Scranton said:

TOTALLY. You guys are dead on. They were coming at me like a gatling gun. I should have told them to pump the breaks a bit--and I was pretty clear that I was "wasn't from round here" and they got the hint after I said it a few times. Plus, EVERYTHING looks the same there. It's just a bunch of white boxes (warehouses) all over the place. 

I learned to fly in the area and it often all still looks the same. I've only flown into Fullerton once but I've been here for 15 years (work less than a mile from KFUL) and know all the major roads and landmarks. It still took me a bit to find it when we were going there.

[kortopates]

Your in my home turf. It is really hard to see the airport on final, especially if you don't see it before you get real low since that make it harder to see. More than likely he was referring to the FAF waypoint QEWTI. Most likely he was vectoring you to final and put you on a 30-45 degree intercept heading with final and gave you the distance from QEWTI when he said cleared for the approach. And if VMC conditions, the final vector to intercept final could have been only a mile away from QEWTI.

Sometimes/often they're real busy making it difficult to ask them to spell the fix. But if you went through final, there  is no shame in asking for vectors back to final to allow you to get set up. Be careful, because its not unusual for there to be a miss-communication on which  approach you are being vectored too or cleared for (such as RNAV) and if not being vectored on to final it could result in you navigating off his intended course (your clearance) and it's usually the pilot that gets the violation if there is a loss of separation. In this case the RNAV and LOC are almost identical so I doubt that would be an issue here.

 

[Brian Scranton]

Thanks guys--good to know!!!! I was expecting QEWTI but he kept saying what I heard as SEEDY. Sealy? Seal Beach? SLI? QWETY (pronounced queedy?).

[yvesg]

11 minutes ago, Brian Scranton said:

Thanks guys--good to know!!!! I was expecting QEWTI but he kept saying what I heard as SEEDY. Sealy? Seal Beach? SLI? QWETY (pronounced queedy?).

Imagine a French speaking guy from Quebec arriving there in a Mooney... I did a few years back. Landed in Long Beach though.

Yves

[Brian Scranton]

YIKES.

[thinwing]

Classic SoCal reroute...all general aviation seems to go thru seal beach!I generally plan on at least 2 reroutes anytime I am filed for LA...and yes they use rapid fire coms...check with the local pilots on best way out

[Brian Scranton]

We departed yesterday--KFUL>RV to 3000ft>SLI>Thermal VOR, Direct...of course, I get the "can you climb faster?" and I am all, "I've got the wife, kid and mother-n-law in tow, be happy I am doing 400fpm!"

[jaylw314]

Just now, thinwing said:

Classic SoCal reroute...all general aviation seems to go thru seal beach!I generally plan on at least 2 reroutes anytime I am filed for LA...and yes they use rapid fire coms...check with the local pilots on best way out

Any time you can use the VFR transition routes or fly VFR will save time, although the OP mentioned it was super smoky.

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, Brian Scranton said:

We departed yesterday--KFUL>RV to 3000ft>SLI>Thermal VOR, Direct...of course, I get the "can you climb faster?" and I am all, "I've got the wife, kid and mother-n-law in tow, be happy I am doing 400fpm!"

Ha!

[aggiepilot04]

Stupid question...but why does that fix matter in this situation?  Assuming you were on an assigned heading and altitude, wouldn't you continue that vector until intercepting, then descend based on the segment where you intercepted the LOC?

[Mooneymite]

Just now, Brian Scranton said:

...of course, I get the "can you climb faster?" 

Don't feel too bad.  That same controller asked us to expedite our climb while we were already climbing at 3800+ in a CL350.

Perhaps he used to work at the Kennedy space center?  

[steingar]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I keep an ace in the hole:  being a Southern fellow, I can always tell fast-talking ATC "Ya hear how slow I talk? That's also how fast I listen. Say again that new route???"

I recall that flying into and out of SAV. Those guys could make the word "nine" polysyllabic.

[thinwing]

1 hour ago, aggiepilot04 said:

Stupid question...but why does that fix matter in this situation?  Assuming you were on an assigned heading and altitude, wouldn't you continue that vector until intercepting, then descend based on the segment where you intercepted the LOC?

It doesn't matter..I think with fixation on a non existing waypoint on the approach corridor ,he lost positional awareness and simply didn't turn on to appr course for the intercept 

[Brian Scranton]

1 hour ago, aggiepilot04 said:

Stupid question...but why does that fix matter in this situation?  Assuming you were on an assigned heading and altitude, wouldn't you continue that vector until intercepting, then descend based on the segment where you intercepted the LOC?

I would have, had I not gotten distracted by his instructions. In the 30 seconds it took for me to figure out, I had blown past the LOC intercept. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

I recall that flying into and out of SAV. Those guys could make the word "nine" polysyllabic.

It's supposed to be . . . NI-NER, right?  

[aggiepilot04]

1 hour ago, Brian Scranton said:

I would have, had I not gotten distracted by his instructions. In the 30 seconds it took for me to figure out, I had blown past the LOC intercept. 

Ahhh...gotcha.  I catch myself ignoring that part when accepting the approach clearance....just making sure I wasn't missing something.  I suppose it would be useful for verifying that you're on the correct approach, but that's also a high-workload time of the flight...especially with fast-talking controllers.

[Bravoman]

Flew into Teterboro (kteb) couple of weeks ago for the first time. Thought it was a general Aviation field. Not. Next time when going to NY either Caldwell or Republic or somewhere else. Flying is supposed to be fun. That wasn’t. I feel the Op’s pain

[Mooneymite]

TEB beats the dickens out of KEWR, KLGA, or KJFK...on most days.  Just stay away from there on Friday evenings.  

[Yetti]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

I keep an ace in the hole:  being a Southern fellow, I can always tell fast-talking ATC "Ya hear how slow I talk? That's also how fast I listen. Say again that new route???"

Till you run into the fast talking East Texas drawl at KCLL.   They give you a check in at the Brazos river..... just checking to see i you are a local..   right?  Then you get a "fixin to hit the Brazos River" check in

[Bravoman]

8 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

TEB beats the dickens out of KEWR, KLGA, or KJFK...on most days.  Just stay away from there on Friday evenings.  

I got there on Thursday evening before Columbus Day and that was bad enough