Virginia Accident

[Hank]

Scroll through the pictures, in the overwater shot it looks like there's a white blotch on the left side of the right tree, maybe where the wing hit it and broke off? But it's interesting that the wings are not apparent anywhere . . . .

[Hank]

Just now, Hyett6420 said:

Ah yes, also im on an ipad that cant type as fast as me so tries to guess!  

Isn't auto spell check a disaster? I finally turned mine off . . . Any spelling mistakes are my own.  

[Tommy]

Just now, Hank said:

In the original article, the first landing / accident (don't recall the aircraft) killed the pilot. This is not a good outcome.

In the original article, the second landing / accident (the Mooney), the three occupants all walked away. This is a good outcome. 

Thus, the "second landing" was a good one. Luck? Skill? I dunno, there's no details known yet, only the outcome. What is it we all say about "any landing you can walk away from"?

Did you even read the article? It makes the whole first / second thing obvious.

Apparently my "Ignore" settings weren't done right . . . .

Now that's more like it, Hank!  And welcome back! I know you miss me! 

Okay I take issues with the fact we knew almost nothing about the first incident and very little about the second (I see how you add landing / accident to your statement, clever). So it's tactless to draw conclusions on who had a better landing simply based on the outcome. If it turns out that the first guy could've saved himself if he decided to plough into a park full of kids but instead he aimed for the rough terrains. Would that change your view? Plus we don't even know if the incident occurred during a landing. 

Not content with dissing first guy's airmanship (mind you, he is now dead), you then insinuated the guy would've been okay if his plane had the structural strength of our Mooney and no chute required as if the first incident is chute related.

 

[Alan Fox]

13 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Would have been my option as well, unless he tried and skipped up the bank into the house, still cant find the wings though.  

Perhaps he did NOT take your course on water ditching ??

[ArtVandelay]

Ah yes that makes sense and zooming in, i think he came up the bank, so to the shore side of the arrowed bowt house, up the slight ditch / bank, hit somehing with right wing which slewed him into the diagonal angle he is pointing at rest in the porch.  He certainly has not gone between those two trees, or there would be two nice marks and two wings!

 

You must have a better picture than I do, it's hard to see much from the low resolution picture from across the lake. I see a white mark on right tree, maybe they caught on fire and turn black so can't see them?

[Guest]

Just a guess here, maybe the wings fell off in flight and only the fuselage made it to the house, intact and without a parachute!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  Once again feelings are getting in the way of a decent debate.

Clarence

[Tommy]

Just now, Hyett6420 said:

Ah yes that makes sense and zooming in, i think he came up the bank, so to the shore side of the arrowed bowt house, up the slight ditch / bank, hit somehing with right wing which slewed him into the diagonal angle he is pointing at rest in the porch.  He certainly has not gone between those two trees, or there would be two nice marks and two wings!

Hardly a controlled flight in my opinion and I agree that water near the bank would've been a much better place to put the plane down.

Sit it under the sun for couple of days, it's good as new!

[gsxrpilot]

I wonder if he possibly lost power and was either descending or struggling to climb and hit a tree with the left wing throwing the plane into a hard left turn into the house?

 

[Hank]

Just now, Tommy said:

Now that's more like it, Hank!  And welcome back! I know you miss me! 

Okay I take issues with the fact we knew almost nothing about the first incident and very little about the second (I see how you add landing / accident to your statement, clever). So it's tactless to draw conclusions on who had a better landing simply based on the outcome. If it turns out that the first guy could've saved himself if he decided to plough into a park full of kids but instead he aimed for the rough terrains. Would that change your view? Plus we don't even know if the incident occurred during a landing. 

Not content with dissing first guy's airmanship (mind you, he is now dead), you then insinuated the guy would've been okay if his plane had the structural strength of our Mooney and no chute required as if the first incident is chute related.

 

I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE FATAL ACCIDENT! READ MY ACTUAL POST AND STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH!!

I gotta fix that Ignore thing fast!

[Guest]

Just now, Tommy said:

Hardly a controlled flight in my opinion and I agree that water near the bank would've been a much better place to put the plane down.

Sit it under the sun for couple of days, it's good as new!

I read somewhere that a water landing will render an airframe to the junk pile, whereas a good old fashioned off airport landing ending in a house it can be rebuilt and saved.

Clarence

[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE FATAL ACCIDENT! READ MY ACTUAL POST AND STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH!!

I gotta fix that Ignore thing fast!

Now now, Hank. You are waking up neighbors. Chillax, bud. It's only an online forum. I am not putting words into your mouth. I didn't use "quotation marks."  I am merely telling you how I interpreted it when you said those things. I know you were taking a cheap shot at the chute but I am calling you out on the insensitive nature and the absurdities of drawing conclusions before the official report. 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Tommy

[gsxrpilot]

If the pilot, who is not terribly injured, would just hurry up and upload the ForeFlight track or CloudAhoy track we could solve this thing already. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

10 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Now that's more like it, Hank!  And welcome back! I know you miss me! 

Okay I take issues with the fact we knew almost nothing about the first incident and very little about the second (I see how you add landing / accident to your statement, clever). So it's tactless to draw conclusions on who had a better landing simply based on the outcome. If it turns out that the first guy could've saved himself if he decided to plough into a park full of kids but instead he aimed for the rough terrains. Would that change your view? Plus we don't even know if the incident occurred during a landing. 

Not content with dissing first guy's airmanship (mind you, he is now dead), you then insinuated the guy would've been okay if his plane had the structural strength of our Mooney and no chute required as if the first incident is chute related.

 

STFU.  Enough already...FCS....NOT cool.  You are only amusing/entertaining yourself at this point.

[Tommy]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

If the pilot, who is not terribly injured, would just hurry up and upload the ForeFlight track or CloudAhoy track we could solve this thing already. 

My money is on that the house would've still be standing if he had a BRS.

But I digress.  

In the meantime, let's just be happy that no one was hurt and wait for the formal report. 

[BigAl]

I’m guessing he turned right, lost power and tried to turn back. If the gear isn’t hanging out then the dude may have thought that strip of water was his best shot and had too much speed. 

[Hank]

1 minute ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

STFU.  Enough already...FCS....NOT cool.  You are only amusing/entertaining yourself at this point.

Got that Ignore thing set up right this time. He ain't "entertaining" me by changing my words any more, and he is no longer distracting me from the discussion.

Several possibilities exist for his flight path, from those already mentioned to attempting the Impossible Turn off of Runway 1, to having partial power and flying the pattern to land back on 19 and having problems on base leg . . . Time will tell as details are learned and the NTSB gets a Factual report out.

Does anyone recognize the plane and / or have contact info for the pilot? I'm sure the Gilliland Foundation would like to offer assistance, the whole reason I started this thread in the first place . . . .

[BigAl]

Also, that looks like the left wing laying just above the bulkhead near the water. 

[Tommy]

47 minutes ago, Hank said:

Time will tell as details are learned and the NTSB gets a Factual report out.

My point exactly, 150 threads earlier....

[Cooperd0g]

Yes, the pilot is here. Yes, I recently purchased the aircraft. 

I flew from Pensacola on Friday and landed at W75 with about 10 gallons remaining. I filled up Saturday morning (54 gallons on board) and was planning to continue to New England. I checked the fuel during preflight as usual and I saw no water. I looked at the windsock as I finished my preflight and it was about 5 knots with a slight crosswind, but favoring 19. My plan was to back taxi and use the full length of 19. I looked at the windsock again as I was about to taxi and it was limp. I don't have a voice recorder so I'm paraphrasing from what I remember. During taxi, Unicom asked me my direction of travel. I said north. Unicom said that the winds were light and variable, not favoring a particular runway, and that no traffic was known to be inbound. He said I could use 01 if I wanted to be closer to course. At this point I was at the one taxi intersection with 01/19 and he said I could take off from there or back taxi and 180. This is where I made my first mistake. 

The taxiway intersection is not in the middle of the field. It is closer to the approach end of 01. But if you look at the taxiway diagram it is a short runway and the intersection cuts off a significant amount. I allowed this distraction to alter my plan and I elected to takeoff runway 01 from the intersection without fully considering the decision. 

There are trees not far past the end of the runway. I don't normally climb at Vx, but as I saw the trees I pulled for Vx and made my second mistake. I over-rotated and entered a power on stall. As I was barely over the treetops while I was attempting to correct, but the sight of the trees right beneath me tempered my forward pitch correction and I re-stalled. I lost lift on the left wing, rolling left. I did not have enough control to really pick a spot at that point, but I had enough rudder to keep the nose between the trees. Or I didn't and it was luck. I honestly can't say. It happened pretty fast by that point.

I am a Navy pilot and TOPGUN graduate. I have my ATP and CFII. I completed my BFR in a 182 just a couple of weeks before I bought the Mooney. I am meticulous about safety and planning. I used to preach to students about the three things a pilot can never use: fuel in the truck, runway behind you and altitude above you. I frequently talk about complacency as a major cause for accidents, not just in aviation. 

I want to be clear, I am not attempting to place any blame on the Unicom. However, I allowed that brief conversation to distract me from my very solid plan and change to a very poor one. 

The left wing sheared off from the tree on the left side. The right wing entered the house with the fuselage and was leaking fuel. Debris from the structure prevented me from being able to open the door enough for escape. Neighbors called 911 and told us to stay put, but fuel was leaking and I wanted us out. A man who happened to be at the airport and getting ready to fly saw everything from my intersection takeoff to stall. He jumped in his truck and found us. He took charge of the group at the house, got the power to the house secured, apparently there was house wiring on or around us, climbed into the house and started pulling debris away so we could get out. This man subsequently held out gear, picked us up from the hospital after we were released, took us to his home and then brought us to a hotel. I am forever in his debt.

The footwell crushed around my legs, but I was able to pull them out on my own only with minor abrasions. My plexiglas windshield was shattered and I have some lacerations on my head and bruising on my right arm. My wife was in the back seat next to our 13 month old son, who was in his car seat. My wife has a fair amount of bruising and soreness. My son has minor rash from his car seat restraints. Fortunately the home was unoccupied. We are very fortunate. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Cooperd0g

[L. Trotter]

 Until the official NTSB report is available here's another speculation. 

Perhaps the engine is just fine and there was no actual failure.  We have a 2100 foot runway (W75), possibly full fuel (because of cheap fuel price) two adults and a child in the plane with luggage.  Being at gross weight or perhaps even a little over, with a warm day,  may have contributed to poor plane performance which is perceived as an engine issue.  Being relatively new to this aircraft perhaps some performance assumptions were made  resulting in handling and control issues. 

Obviously, I don't know what happened. This is just a scenario some of us may find ourselves in when faced with a low fuel price and the temptation to put on a few extra gallons ( exceeding weight restrictions ) to save money. 

[L. Trotter]

14 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said:

Yes, the pilot is here. Yes, I recently purchased the aircraft. 

I flew from Pensacola on Friday and landed at W75 with about 10 gallons remaining. I filled up Saturday morning (54 gallons on board) and was planning to continue to New England. I checked the fuel during preflight as usual and I saw no water. I looked at the windsock as I finished my preflight and it was about 5 knots with a slight crosswind, but favoring 19. My plan was to back taxi and use the full length of 19. I looked at the windsock again as I was about to taxi and it was limp. I don't have a voice recorder so I'm paraphrasing from what I remember. During taxi, Unicom asked me my direction of travel. I said north. Unicom said that the winds were light and variable, not favoring a particular runway, and that no traffic was known to be inbound. He said I could use 01 if I wanted to be closer to course. At this point I was at the one taxi intersection with 01/19 and he said I could take off from there or back taxi and 180. This is where I made my first mistake. 

The taxiway intersection is not in the middle of the field. It is closer to the approach end of 01. But if you look at the taxiway diagram it is a short runway and the intersection cuts off a significant amount. I allowed this distraction to alter my plan and I elected to takeoff runway 01 from the intersection without fully considering the decision. 

There are trees not far past the end of the runway. I don't normally climb at Vx, but as I saw the trees I pulled for Vx and made my second mistake. I over-rotated and entered a power on stall. As I was barely over the treetops while I was attempting to correct, but the sight of the trees right beneath me tempered my forward pitch correction and I re-stalled. I lost lift on the left wing, rolling left. I did not have enough control to really pick a spot at that point, but I had enough rudder to keep the nose between the trees. Or I didn't and it was luck. I honestly can't say. It happened pretty fast by that point.

I am a Navy pilot and TOPGUN graduate. I have my ATP and CFII. I completed my BFR in a 182 just a couple of weeks before I bought the Mooney. I am meticulous about safety and planning. I used to preach to students about the three things a pilot can never use: fuel in the truck, runway behind you and altitude above you. I frequently talk about complacency as a major cause for accidents, not just in aviation. 

I want to be clear, I am not attempting to place any blame on the Unicom. However, I allowed that brief conversation to distract me from my very solid plan and change to a very poor one. 

The left wing sheared off from the tree on the left side. The right wing entered the house with the fuselage and was leaking fuel. Debris from the structure prevented me from being able to open the door enough for escape. Neighbors called 911 and told us to stay put, but fuel was leaking and I wanted us out. A man who happened to be at the airport and getting ready to fly saw everything from my intersection takeoff to stall. He jumped in his truck and found us. He took charge of the group at the house, got the power to the house secured, apparently there was house wiring on or around us, climbed into the house and started pulling debris away so we could get out. This man subsequently held out gear, picked us up from the hospital after we were released, took us to his home and then brought us to a hotel. I am forever in his debt.

The footwell crushed around my legs, but I was able to pull them out on my own only with minor abrasions. My plexiglas windshield was shattered and I have some lacerations on my head and bruising on my right arm. My wife was in the back seat next to our 13 month old son, who was in his car seat. My wife has a fair amount of bruising and soreness. My son has minor rash from his car seat restraints. Fortunately the home was unoccupied. We are very fortunate. 

 oops, bad timing on my comment. I was writing  my comment  when this was posted. 

 Thank you for your honesty as we can all learn from your experience.  There are several lessons to be learned.  You and your family were certainly blessed with safety. It's nice to have the good Lord smile on you from time to time. 

[ragedracer1977]

Thanks Cooperdog for telling us how it happened.  Sharing this stuff can literally save the life of another pilot and his family.

[N9201A]

Glad you and your family are OK. Thanks for sharing your experience, it can't be easy. Best wishes for everyone's speedy recovery.


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[Hank]

Cooper, it is so nice to be able to hear directly from you what happened! Departure accidents under power so often end up otherwise . . .

The power-on stall is the one maneuver that I have never enjoyed, even at partial throttle in my C. After reading your account, I need an experienced CFI to walk me through a couple, since my last was on my Instrument check ride several years ago.

Congratulations on two successful recoveries! May we all do as well if our time comes . . .

[PTK]

Congtratulations Cooper on the best possible outcome. It's refreshing to hear you and your family are well. So many times mistakes like this end up differently. Thank you for sharing.