Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 Looking to fly as direct as possible but the lakes are in the .way. Would you fly over at 13,500 VFR KHZE to N30. gotta figure a fuel stop but not sure of the route. Just looking for input.
gsengle Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 I assume you're talking route to Oshkosh? I've flown the lake. Have life preservers, be on with center, and fly high!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 No actually I was planning a trip to NY stopping overnight in PA.
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 I've been using skyvector to kind of get a rough route planned. than refine it but nothing seems to be quick or easy. So direct seemed easiest. But that puts me over the lakes. I figure with O2 I can get to 13,5k and glide if need to any coast. I hate to be pessimistic but poop happens so better to be prepared.
Hank Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, gsengle said: I've flown the lake. Have life preservers, be on with center, and fly high! . . . with a tailwind! Seriously, there are no longer stops over the Lakes. 1 minute ago, Dream to fly said: No actually I was planning a trip to NY stopping overnight in PA. If you're flying the Lakes east / west, finding a fuel stop should be easy, and you'll only worry about gliding distance over Michigan; I'd suggest going south of Superior. Have fun!
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hank said: . . . with a tailwind! Seriously, there are no longer stops over the Lakes. If you're flying the Lakes east / west, finding a fuel stop should be easy, and you'll only worry about gliding distance over Michigan; I'd suggest going south of Superior. Have fun! I'd be south of superior but would have to fly the middle of Lake Michigan then skirt the other two lakes Huron and Erie.
Hank Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 Erie is quite skinny, but beware the weather along it. I sidestepped to the west one time because I didn't like the look of a cloud, which turned out to be the end of a line stretching from almost 50 nm! Cleared up just west of Erie, PA. 2
Andy95W Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 In a nutshell: summertime: yes, with life jackets; winter: never. Lakes Michigan and Superior are the dangerous ones, due to their cold temperatures, even in summer. From 11,000 feet crossing Lake Michigan at one of the narrow points, I have only about 7 miles that I'm not within gliding distance of shore. In the summertime, with lots of traffic on the lakes, you would have a good 10-15 minutes to find a boat and ditch next to it. 2
Bob Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Yes as Andy said above. I fly over the lake, in summer, without hesitation! If I lost power, I would head to the nearest large boat and ditch. There are so many boats out this time of year and very ez to spot. What do boats have available to help? 1) People 2) Communication 3) Medical supplies. Also boaters tend to be very nice, safety/danger conscience and tend to want to help others. Oh ya, I forgot #4 they may also have bikini girls on board to help with CPR! Edited July 21, 2017 by Bob 3
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 Not at that altitude. I have crossed the lakes at 19,000 with glide to shore confidence, but without that, no. Check without that, check out this routing, KHZE ksaw cyvv kbuf N30 adds only 20 miles to your total route and so just a few minutes, but keeps you over land the whole way by the northerly route. What looks like water where you end up routing over Lake Huron is actually a chain of islands there. I have used this route many times. It also has the advantage over the southern route over the lake that there is much much less traffic (almost none) and so rerouting by ATC and also being a bit further north and cooler my impression is that there are less energetic storms on average.
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, aviatoreb said: Not at that altitude. I have crossed the lakes at 19,000 with glide to shore confidence, but without that, no. Check without that, check out this routing, KHZE ksaw cyvv kbuf N30 adds only 20 miles to your total route and so just a few minutes, but keeps you over land the whole way by the northerly route. What looks like water where you end up routing over Lake Huron is actually a chain of islands there. I have used this route many times. It also has the advantage over the southern route over the lake that there is much much less traffic (almost none) and so rerouting by ATC and also being a bit further north and cooler my impression is that there are less energetic storms on average. That looks good. Now a question, How do the kind folks to the north like a U.S. plane traversing their airspace?
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dream to fly said: That looks good. Now a question, How do the kind folks to the north like a U.S. plane traversing their airspace? They are very very friendly those Canadian controllers. You MUST be on a flight plan to cross the border, either an IFR flight plan or even a pre-filed VFR flight plan, but otherwise its pretty seamless. Other than the accents, and the fact that they say things slightly differently, like frequencies "one one eight DECIMAL tree" with either thick English Canadian, or queubecois (but in English) accents, you wouldn't know you crossed. No eapis or anythng necessary if you will be airborne the entire time over Canada. You are not officially in Canada. I do bring my passport just in case there were ever an emergency requiring an unexpected diversion, so maybe read the rules about that as well, but its all ok. If you ever had an emergency, then no problem, declare an emergency and state your intentions as you would normally. They do have a rule about emergency equipment, which I forget specifically the details, which is good stuff to carry anyway when flying over remote terrain. BTW that routing is over completely flat farming country. Also there is a rule about your transponder ( I cannot remember anymore if the mode C is sufficient or they require ADSB compliant, but I have ADSB but I think you can still go with a mode C - do check, and they require 406ELT for their own tail numbers but I think N numbers can still get away with 121ELT but I forget and I have 406). Anyway, flying over Canada is very easy and seamless if you know how to file an IFR or VFR flight plan and pick it up before you cross the border. You need to be talking to ATC to cross the border. I find this route much calmer and more pleasant than the southerly route around the lakes with all the traffic esp near Chicago, but really the whole way.
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 Oh sorry - to stay over the islands routing north of Lake Huron, better put in one more way point Try KHZE KSAW CYZE CYVV KBUF N30 and this adds exactly only 30 miles out of 1200 miles to your routing.
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 Awesome thanks @aviatoreb I appreciate the info.
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Dream to fly said: Awesome thanks @aviatoreb I appreciate the info. :-)
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, aviatoreb said: Oh sorry - to stay over the islands routing north of Lake Huron, better put in one more way point Try KHZE KSAW CYZE CYVV KBUF N30 and this adds exactly only 30 miles out of 1200 miles to your routing. Now only if the Gypsy could fly sub-sonic.
201er Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Dream to fly said: That looks good. Now a question, How do the kind folks to the north like a U.S. plane traversing their airspace? They love it. They send you a bill!
Dream to fly Posted July 21, 2017 Author Report Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, 201er said: They love it. They send you a bill! Really?
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, 201er said: They love it. They send you a bill! Meh - the bill is less than it would cost in fuel, not to mention engine time, to try and fly around Canada.
201er Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 If you fly south enough in Canadian airspace, they have an LOA with American controllers (I think Cleveland center if I remember right) and you stay with them and then there's no bill.
201er Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, aviatoreb said: Meh - the bill is less than it would cost in fuel, not to mention engine time, to try and fly around Canada. Maybe in yours! In a 201 at Carson's Speed Lean of Peak it's more.
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, 201er said: Maybe in yours! In a 201 at Carson's Speed Lean of Peak it's more. Doh! Carson's speed? That's so dang slow that even your birds would get bored..... But I call your bluff! At Carson's speed I claim that the engine time would be sufficiently longer and so more expensive than trying to save $30 bucks or so on Canadian ATC. Plus you end up paying for access for several months - so when he flies home - its "free". Honestly though - I plain forgot about the fee because its so small in the grand scheme of the costs involved with a trip across country like that. Fuel, wear and tear, hotel, car, O2, extra beverages, lunch, sometimes landing fees, etc. I would not reroute South for $30 based just on the comfort of what is most convenient alone.
aviatoreb Posted July 21, 2017 Report Posted July 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, 201er said: If you fly south enough in Canadian airspace, they have an LOA with American controllers (I think Cleveland center if I remember right) and you stay with them and then there's no bill. That's hard to control - for example I also fly KPTD-KARB sometimes and that is pretty southerly Canada, but all Canadian controllers. Oh - small detail - do check your data bases to see if you have charts etc for Canada. At least fore flight you get the charts for southern Canada for free but you need to remember to download them.
Godfather Posted July 22, 2017 Report Posted July 22, 2017 During the summer months I cross Lake Michigan all the time. Normally climb to 9-13 ish and fly the same way I always do. Toss a couple life jackets in the plane and enjoy the flight.
warren.huisman Posted July 22, 2017 Report Posted July 22, 2017 Flying over the lake isn't too much different than flying in IMC with low ceilings. Lose an engine in IMC and you may be able to reach an airport but if not you are kinda out of luck. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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