How cheap are you?

[MyNameIsNobody]

10 hours ago, smccray said:

Not directed at anyone in particular-

I see this as bad form.  If you empty the hose, the next buyer pays to fill up the hose, and if he or she doesn't empty the hose, then they're the individuals paying for the gas in your tank.  True- the next buyer could choose to empty the hose as well and then they don't get screwed out of the deal- but if you universalize it then no one is in any better position.  If everyone empties the hose, then everyone is in exactly the same position as if no one empties the hose.  I consider this to be part of the social contract of flying.  

You can do it, and I assume it's legal, but I don't want to be that guy. 

 

It is only a quart or two and if you don't it is your choice.  Let CB's feel they are getting one over on the man with their shenanigans.  One's "bad form" is another's game.  Those that say it is just a dab need to not worry about it and laugh at the CB's...as well as being happy that they can help CB's feel good.  I like to make others feel good from time to time.  It is good for the soul.  

Being a kill joy is no way to go through life. (That is directed at particular folks that are bent on turning "nothing" into something.  I will smile every time I "do it" now.

[Marauder]

Has anyone ever even measured how much fuel is left in the hose? I never even though about this until some line kid at my airport mentioned it. I am just too lazy to pick up the hose.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[MyNameIsNobody]

12 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I think I need to be nominated president at the next board meeting.

Red line dictates my daily routine when I go flying and I need gas. Pull plane out of hangar....

and continue pulling it all the way to the pump. By hand.

Alex, that is impressive.  Especially if there are some inclines to negotiate.  I will pull after fueling to tie downs half for exercise and half because of re-starts in M20E, but THAT is something I would not care to do.  Over weekend I had a load (ton and a half) of stone delivered and dumped below our deck.  Spread it with a rake and my feet.  My ticker works or I would have been supine in the 91 degree heat.  Two hours of CB time vs. paying to have it done...

[cnoe]

Has anyone ever even measured how much fuel is left in the hose? I never even though about this until some line kid at my airport mentioned it. I am just too lazy to pick up the hose.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

If you know the i.d. it's a simple calculation. I'll get hose specs next time I fill up. For a 1" hose it's 1 gallon for each 24.5' of hose length.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Oldguy]

Can we not move on to something more fun for the engineers like the volume expansion of the fuel remaining in the black hose between fill-ups when it is sitting in the baking sun for an hour or so? Coming from the storage tank into the hose has to have some type of temperature rise.

I am waiting for the engineers out there to take this and lighten the mood.

[cnoe]

I am waiting for the engineers out there to take this and lighten the mood.

 

 

Or [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention]. I haven't seen any hot chick pics lately.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Marauder]

 Or [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention]. I haven't seen any hot chick pics lately.
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

I can only offer you this gem:

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

If you know the i.d. it's a simple calculation. I'll get hose specs next time I fill up. For a 1" hose it's 1 gallon for each 24.5' of hose length.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This could explain something. I track my fuel usage pretty closely to match it up with the JPI consumed. Could explain why sometimes I put in an extra half gallon than the JPI said I used.

Why those no good hose drainers!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[1964-M20E]

I just time it so that I'm right behind the guy in the Cessna and tell him to leave the pump on for me and then fill up on his nickle.  Works like a charm they are usually so happy a Mooney pilot is talking to them they don't even know what happened.

 

 

[MooneyMitch]

Just now, 1964-M20E said:

I just time it so that I'm right behind the guy in the Cessna and tell him to leave the pump on for me and then fill up on his nickle.  Works like a charm they are usually so happy a Mooney pilot is talking to them they don't even know what happened.

 

 

That's funny !!!

[Hector]

On the pump issue, we have an honour based system where you fill up and note on a piece of paper how much you put it.  I SUPPOSE you could lie and put the incorrect amount in by 5 or 10 litres but hey that's only 20 bucks and we spend that going to dinner or a decent bottle of red.  Now for our younger more financially challenged brethren I can see 20 being a lot so I can see some people doing this but I don't think they do. 
Our pump though ALWAYS gives you a free 500ml anyway as for some reason you fill tank, put hose back.  Then the next person who comes to fill has a full nozzle of gas, possibly due to pressure behind the valve.  Squeezing gas up into the hose.  Being a non US type pump you can't shut it off except by putting the nozzle back into its holder.  

Honor system! I'm impressed! Is that just your local airport or is that common practice in the U.K.? That would last about one day at my airport which is about how long it would take for all the fuel to disappear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[201er]

4 minutes ago, Hector said:

That would last about one day at my airport which is about how long it would take for all the fuel to disappear.

 

Why? Is there nothing but a bunch of Mooney pilots based there? 

[Hector]

Why? Is there nothing but a bunch of Mooney pilots based there? 

Mike I said that half jokingly but it would be an interesting experiment. I would like to think that all of us that fly would be honest and pay for the fuel we take. I think that is true for the most part, but there is always the exception, and unfortunately, rules are often put in place because of the exceptions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cnoe]

But seriously, you record your own fuel purchases on a PIECE OF PAPER?!! And then I suppose you take it to the wench at the FBO to give her the requisite number of chickens for your purchase?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cnoe]

JK of course. I'll apologize in advance. Still that system would not work here in the good old US of ME.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kpaul]

I visited @Raptor05121 for a fly-in.  I pulled my plane along the green line, it was a PITA!  No way would I pull it from the hangar to the pump.

[Marauder]

I have been browsing Craigslist like a hawk. It seems like you have running/cutting models for $400+ or broken models that don't even run for $50. I'm trying to find that golden egg "runs fine but needs new deck" for like $150 and doesnt look like a bomb went off next to it. Its mowing season so they are few and far inbetween.

Too bad you live so far away. I have a Sears Craftsman that I converted into a tug. Never use it. Also bought a Brackett tow bar to use with it. The tow bar probably cost more than the tractor did new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[1964-M20E]

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

On the pump issue, we have an honour based system where you fill up and note on a piece of paper how much you put it.  I SUPPOSE you could lie and put the incorrect amount in by 5 or 10 litres but hey that's only 20 bucks and we spend that going to dinner or a decent bottle of red.  Now for our younger more financially challenged brethren I can see 20 being a lot so I can see some people doing this but I don't think they do. 

Our pump though ALWAYS gives you a free 500ml anyway as for some reason you fill tank, put hose back.  Then the next person who comes to fill has a full nozzle of gas, possibly due to pressure behind the valve.  Squeezing gas up into the hose.  Being a non US type pump you can't shut it off except by putting the nozzle back into its holder.  

 

We have the honor (notice I spelled honor correctly ) system at my home airport as well with a padlock to keep the really dishonest folks away.  It is a private airport so we rarely have outsiders flying in unless invited and no cameras and only members have a key.

 

 

[DonMuncy]

11 hours ago, cnoe said:

 

You'll notice that when the pump first starts (before any fuel is dispensed) the pump-display will often indicate that some fuel has been purchased as Richard points out. This amount can vary greatly depending on what kind of pilot preceded you. If you follow a true hose drainer that number can be well above the 1 gallon mark which can be a source of aggravation. But I can guarantee you the FBO isn't going give a rat's ass if you complain about it.

 

This is an interesting twist to the thread. No knowing how anyone's pumping/metering system works, I have to make some guesses. It would appear unlikely the pump "knows" how much fuel is in the line (presumably already past the metering device). If that is the case, what the guy in front of you did, wouldn't be a factor. If that is the case, where did that $.81 of gas go? Perhaps there is some back-flow somewhere in the system that allows the pump to push some amount of fuel into the system before the customer gets it. Maybe my original assumption is wrong and the system does know it needs to fill the hose before you open the valve. It would be interesting to know how the system operates. I hope it is not a system design to charge the customer some amount before he gets any fuel.

 

[cnoe]

Don I believe that once energized, the pump/read-out apparatus will push and meter fuel unabated until the flow is stopped by the nozzle/valve. The flow will stop at the point where the air pressure in the line equalizes with the pump's pressure setting. If the hose remained full after the previous use (i.e. the nozzle closed then pump switched off) there would be very little volume measured on the read-out prior to actually dispensing fuel. But if the hose was completely drained before the pump is energized then a sizable volume would register on the read-out prior to any fuel actually being dispensed. The $0.81 of fuel Richard paid for but didn't receive was likely caused by someone turning off the pump and then holding the nozzle open until the trickle subsided (but not actually draining the hose).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DonMuncy]

1 minute ago, cnoe said:

Don I believe that once energized, the pump/read-out apparatus will push and meter fuel unabated until the flow is stopped by the nozzle/valve. The flow will stop at the point where the air pressure in the line equalizes with the pump's pressure setting. If the hose remained full after the previous use (i.e. the nozzle closed then pump switched off) there would be very little volume measured on the read-out prior to actually dispensing fuel. But if the hose was completely drained before the pump is energized then a sizable volume would register on the read-out prior to any fuel actually being dispensed. The $0.81 of fuel Richard paid for but didn't receive was likely caused by someone turning off the pump and then holding the nozzle open until the trickle subsided (but not actually draining the hose).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That makes a lot of sense. Why didn't I figure that out. You are saying that if someone had really drained the hose, that number would have been a few dollars rather than $.81

[cnoe]

Lots of factors to consider including hose diameter, length, and pump pressure. It could be a gallon or more to recharge the hose I'd guess.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

Lots of factors to consider including hose diameter, length, and pump pressure. It could be a gallon or more to recharge the hose I'd guess.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like some experimentation is in order.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, cnoe said:

Lots of factors to consider including hose diameter, length, and pump pressure. It could be a gallon or more to recharge the hose I'd guess.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You're figuring out the theoretical hose capacity. What makes you think the hose is 100% full across it's diameter? Many hoses are not, I have no reason to suspect the fuel hoses are. Then subtract what comes out by draining the nozzle, too.

Take a helper, a bucket and a known-volume container of at least 1 quart capacity. Fuel your plane, measure what comes out of the nozzle when draining it. Shut off pump, have helper hold the hose over the bucket, extend hose to its full length and raise it up while helper preses the lever, and see how much comes out. I'd guess like someone above that it's just a quart or two. 

[Raptor05121]

13 hours ago, prflyer said:

And you save on your gym membership since you get your workout at the airport! I second your nomination.

I still go to the gym. I'm down 6lbs. THATS A GALLON OF AVGAS!

13 hours ago, orionflt said:

don't be so quick on the nomination, we need to know if it is up hill or down hill first

Brian

 

Its pretty well level. Pushing on the backside of the blade, you can maintain walking pace with little effort (however much 'little effort' for a 25 y/o equates to you fellers I don't know ). However, the south turn onto the ramp is uphill for 20 feet and wears me out.